<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">A slight clarification (pertaining to Françoise's and Martin's e-mails): In Telugu, allocutive markers index only formality, not gender. It is in Tamil that they index both formality and the gender of the addressee.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Siva</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 23 Jan 2020, at 2:58 am, Françoise Rose <<a href="mailto:Francoise.Rose@UNIV-LYON2.FR" class="">Francoise.Rose@UNIV-LYON2.FR</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Hi Scott, Micha, and LingTypers,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">what Micha describes for Bagvalal is extremely common cross-linguistically. This is why in my typology of loci for categorical gender-indexicality I have distinguished a locus that I call “discourse markers” (with all the disadvantages of such a vague label), functionally distinct from the other loci such as phonology, morphology (generally about person/gender) and lexicon (for more details, see Rose, Françoise. 2015. “On Male and Female Speech and More. A Typology of Categorical Gender Indexicality in Indigenous South American Languages.” International Journal of American Linguistics 81 (4): 495–537. Send me a personal e-mail for a copy). But this is taking us away from Scott’s original question.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">What is different about Basque, and apparently Telugu and Bodo, is that beside the gender-indexical function of the morphemes in questions, their “primary” function is not much discussed and is not given a label (hence Scott’s question). This is probably why descriptivists focus on their gender-indexical quality rather than on their relationship to register. This is not a phenomenon that I have observed in South America (see the paper mentioned above). Maybe people working on registers have consensual labels for the different variables. I don’t know about that.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Best,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">Françoise<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">De :</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">De la part de</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Michael Daniel<br class=""><b class="">Envoyé :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>mercredi 22 janvier 2020 08:15<br class=""><b class="">À :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Objet :</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Lingtyp] Name this category<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Hi.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">In Bagvalal, East Caucasian, some particles are indexical of the gender of the addressee. These particles apparently revolve on interactional categories involving the addressee (interrogation, shared knowledge, imperative) but are not (necessarily) referential in the sense indicated by Francoise. As the Basque allocutive, they are on the addressee's side, and not on the speaker's side as in Scott's examples, As far as I understand, this also happens in other East Caucasian languages languages of the Andic branch. See (Kibrik 2001: 174 - Bagvalinskij jazyk: grammatika, teksty, slovari) - a very short but very informative one-page discussion.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Michael Daniel<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">ср, 22 янв. 2020 г. в 03:30, Siva Kalyan <<a href="mailto:sivakalyan.princeton@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">sivakalyan.princeton@gmail.com</a>>:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0cm;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I would add that allocutive particles in Dravidian languages could be seen as a somewhat open class, which periodically absorbs nouns: e.g. Telugu -ayyā < ayya 'lord', and Tamil =sār < English "sir".<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Siva<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On 22 Jan 2020, at 11:23 am, Siva Kalyan <<a href="mailto:sivakalyan.princeton@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">sivakalyan.princeton@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Some Dravidian languages also have allocutive markers (though I've never seen them described as such). Telugu has at least =rā (informal) and -aṇḍi (respectful); Tamil has at least the following:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom: 0cm;" class=""><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">=ḍā (informal masculine)<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">=ḍī (informal feminine)<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">=pā (intimate masculine)<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">=mā (intimate feminine)<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">=kā (intimate elder sister)<o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">-ṅga(ḷ) (respectful)<o:p class=""></o:p></li></ul><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The "intimate" allocutive particles (my terminology) are historically contractions of kin terms (appā 'father', ammā 'mother', akkā 'elder sister'—other kin terms may also contract in this way, but I've only ever heard it with these three, the last one very rarely). Also, =mā and =pā don't exactly line up with female and male addressee, as =mā can also be used by a female speaker to a male addressee; also, =ḍā can be used when speaking to a child regardless of gender.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Siva<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On 22 Jan 2020, at 8:35 am, Vladimir Panov <<a href="mailto:panovmeister@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">panovmeister@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Dear Scott,<br class=""><br class="">Françoise is right about the allocutive. There is a paper by Anton Antonov i which this category is treated typologically:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Antonov, Anton. 2015. Verbal allocutivity in a crosslinguistic perspective.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">Linguistic Typology</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>19(1). 55–85.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Best,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Vladimir<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">вт, 21 янв. 2020 г. в 12:18, Scott Delancey <<a href="mailto:delancey@uoregon.edu" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">delancey@uoregon.edu</a>>:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0cm;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Bodo (Tibeto-Burman, NE India) has a set of particles, two used by men and two by women, which indicate that the conversation is friendly and informal. Reminiscent of Thai<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">krap</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">khaa</i>, but with the opposite sense. Does anyone know if anyone has encountered such a category and given it a label? I need to decide what to call these, and would just as soon not make up a term if someone has already done it.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Scott DeLancey<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Lingtyp mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class=""><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Lingtyp mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class=""><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Lingtyp mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class=""><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; 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