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<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: "Tahoma",sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Dear Hannu,</span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-family: "Tahoma",sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">This is a well-known example of the Time-Water connection, but there is a crucial difference between the idea of river/flowing, on the one hand, and constantly repeated ebb/flow
phenomenon, on the other; the latter thus being closer to the idea of cyclic time, rather than to the idea of time as a constantly flowing river.</span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-family: "Tahoma",sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Thanks anyway for drawing my attention to this!</span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-family: "Tahoma",sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Best</span></p>
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<span style="color: black; font-family: "Tahoma",sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Leonid
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> Hannu Tommola <hannu.tommola@tuni.fi><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 27 January 2020 10:38<br>
<b>To:</b> Kulikov, L.; Joseph Brooks; Linguistic Typology<br>
<b>Subject:</b> VS: [Lingtyp] Lingtyp Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28</font>
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Dear Leonid,</div>
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<br>
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haven't you considered the Germanic - Dutch <i>tijd</i>, and notably English <i>tide
</i>(ebb and flow)?</div>
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<br>
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Regards,</div>
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Hannu<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>Lähettäjä:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> käyttäjän Kulikov, L. <L.Kulikov@hum.leidenuniv.nl> puolesta<br>
<b>Lähetetty:</b> maanantai 27. tammikuuta 2020 0.14<br>
<b>Vastaanottaja:</b> Joseph Brooks <brooks.josephd@gmail.com>; Linguistic Typology <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Aihe:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Lingtyp Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28</font>
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<p>Dear Joseph,</p>
<p>Thanks for the information and suggestions - very useful for my research! </p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Leonid <br>
</p>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Joseph Brooks <brooks.josephd@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 26 January 2020 22:36:52<br>
<b>To:</b> Linguistic Typology<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Lingtyp Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28</font>
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<div class="x_gmail_default" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Dear Leonid,</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">In Chini (a Papuan language) there is in fact no single noun for 'time'. Yet the closest would be the use of the word for water, anmV (V = barred i) which is used to refer to long temporal intervals,
eg a year or so. This is not terribly surprising since people there are quite dependent on the Sogeram River, which changes dramatically across the four Chini seasons (which basically correspond to dry vs wet). This word then gets used in various temporal
expressions, eg 'to age/get older', anmV mbVnVmbVnV (sry for the pesky Vs). Lit. 'to gain/increase water'. </div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I do not know much more about this but it could be interesting to consult the grammars or dictionaries of languages used in highly riverine societies, as with Chini.</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
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<div class="x_gmail_default" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Cheers</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Joseph</div>
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<div class="x_gmail_quote">
<div class="x_gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 1:00 PM <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-request@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-request@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: Query: Metaphors of Time and etymology (Kulikov, L.)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 01:12:38 +0000<br>
From: "Kulikov, L." <<a href="mailto:L.Kulikov@hum.leidenuniv.nl" target="_blank">L.Kulikov@hum.leidenuniv.nl</a>><br>
To: Bernhard Wälchli <<a href="mailto:bernhard@ling.su.se" target="_blank">bernhard@ling.su.se</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>,<br>
"<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" target="_blank">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" target="_blank">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Lingtyp] Query: Metaphors of Time and etymology<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:2AC2ED821568F34E88CEDE5B1445BA9A5C2EBFB8@SPMXM05.VUW.leidenuniv.nl" target="_blank">2AC2ED821568F34E88CEDE5B1445BA9A5C2EBFB8@SPMXM05.VUW.leidenuniv.nl</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Dear Bernhard,<br>
<br>
Thank you for your response.<br>
I am NOT claiming of course that ALL words for time (in ALL languages) can be etymologized on the basis of two metaphors for Time mentioned in my query (rotation and flow(ing)). What I AM interested in is a (preliminary) typology of semantic shifts that may
eventually result in the meaning ‘time’; or, put differently, in a typology of possible (etymological) sources of the words for ‘time’. These sources are of course not limited to ‘rotation’ and ‘flow(ing)’ words. For instance, Germanic words for ‘time’ (time,
Zeit, tijd etc.), are traceable to the derivatives of the Proto-Germanic (and Proto-Indo-European) verbal root meaning ‘to divide’ (PIE *deh2(i)-), thus originally meaning ‘division, section, piece; period, quantum of time’ or the like. Your Baltic example
instantiates yet another possible etymological source of the word for ‘time’.<br>
I am NOT claiming that the etymology necessarily reflects the difference in the way the Time is conceptualized by the speakers of a proto-language (Proto-Slavic, Proto-Germanic, Proto-Baltic etc.). My query is, I repeat, about a “typology of etymologies” of
the words for Time. And, as I said, even a preliminary research demonstrates that, among several (quite many!) etymologies, we find one which can only be explained as based on one of the two archaic metaphors for Time (Time as rotation) – I think you won’t
deny that this is the only way to explain the origin of the words for Time in Slavic and Indic (in the same way as words for, say, ‘horse’ originate in some languages from the adjective ‘quick’; words for ‘father’ – from ‘protector’; etc. etc.).<br>
My question is thus: do we find languages, where the words for Time can be explained (etymologized) in terms of another metaphor for Time – Time as flow(ing)?<br>
Best,<br>
Leonid<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Bernhard Wälchli [<a href="mailto:bernhard@ling.su.se" target="_blank">bernhard@ling.su.se</a>]<br>
Sent: 25 January 2020 20:26<br>
To: Kulikov, L.<br>
Subject: Re: Query: Metaphors of Time and etymology<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Leonid,<br>
<br>
I am not sure whether one can simply take for granted that the word for "time" in a language reflects an idea about the concept time. In the (East) Baltic languages, "time" is etymologically what is left: _laik(a)s_ and this obviously comes from uses in a particular
construction: "I have (no) time" = "I have (no[thing]) left" (probably with the partitive genitive as the basic form rather than the nominative originally). I think it would be wrong to conclude that the ancestors of Latvians and Lithuanian conceived of time
in an abstract sense of something that is left, the abstract notion of time is not the issue, the issue is concrete language use in a concrete construction, which, as a byproduct, gave rise to a particular noun with the meaning "time" in a sort of "deconstructionalization".<br>
<br>
Put differently, metonymy rather than metaphor in this case.<br>
<br>
This is about as if the Russian word for "time" would be **когда from мне некогда.<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<br>
Bernhard<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Kulikov, L. <<a href="mailto:L.Kulikov@hum.leidenuniv.nl" target="_blank">L.Kulikov@hum.leidenuniv.nl</a>><br>
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2020 2:16 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>;
<a href="mailto:kulikovli@googlemail.com" target="_blank">kulikovli@googlemail.com</a><br>
Subject: [Lingtyp] Query: Metaphors of Time and etymology<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
<br>
From: Kulikov, L.<br>
Sent: 24 January 2020 22:54<br>
To: <a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:kulikovli@googlemail.com" target="_blank">kulikovli@googlemail.com</a><br>
Subject: Query: Metaphors of Time and etymology<br>
<br>
Dear colleagues,<br>
<br>
It is well-known that the concept of Time is linguistically connected with a plethora of metaphors that help to accommodate the notions related to Time within the human mind. In particular, there are two well-known universal metaphors for Time: Time as rotation
(wheel, revolving etc.) and Time as flow(ing) (river etc.).<br>
<br>
The former metaphor underlies the etymology of the words for Time in many languages, including Indo-European. Cf., for instance:<br>
1) Slavic (Old Church Slavonic) vrěmę (with cognates), going back to *vert-men- ‘turning, rotation’; and<br>
2) (Vedic) Sanskrit kāla- ‘time’ derived from the Indic reflex of the Proto-Indo-European root *kwel- ‘move (around), revolve, rotate’ (cf. words for ‘wheel’ in several Indo-European languages, such as Greek kyklos, Slavic kolo- etc., Germanic (Eng.) wheel
etc., all derived from the reflexes of the same root).<br>
<br>
However, I was unable to find similar examples for the latter metaphor – that of river/flow. Can anyone provide examples from any language, illustrating this metaphor, i.e. word for Time etymologizable as ‘river’, ‘flow’, ‘stream’ etc.?<br>
Many thanks,<br>
<br>
Leonid Kulikov<br>
<br>
Ghent University, Linguistics Dept.<br>
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