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<p>There is also the use of "theoretical" as a would-be antonym to
"descriptive" — with the latter often preceded by words such as
"just" or "merely", in order to reinforce the assumption that
being "theoretical" is somehow a higher or more worthy endeavor
than being "descriptive". Since it is clearly impossible to
describe any aspect of language without adopting some kind of
theory (e.g. with regard to such basic stuff as what constitutes a
segment when you're transcribing a text), the presupposition that
theory stands in opposition to description is both confusing, as
suggested by Martin, but also pernicious — the latter because it
expresses a totalitarian attitude whereby if you're not adopting
the "right" theory, you're not adopting any theory whatsoever.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/02/2020 12:38, Eitan Grossman
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAA00bN=XgxXfSYS_y32kru=+ajWxVOzWgMzgEWnaag0qAfNqkg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Hi all,
<div dir="auto"><br>
<div dir="auto">In oral comments and reviews, I encounter two
main uses of "theory" and "theoretical." One is simply an
autonym of generative linguists, as in "John only hangs out
with theoretical linguists" or "Mary does great fieldwork
but we want to hire a theoretician."</div>
<div dir="auto">You might also encounter something along the
lines of "This abstract makes some very interesting
observations but does not reference the theoretical
literature, and it is unclear how it relates to theory." </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The other use is something like "having a
point (beyond describing facts)" or "referencing general
linguistic literature." </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">But in my experience, the first is by far the
most common.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Eitan</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">בתאריך יום ג׳, 11 בפבר׳ 2020,
12:16, מאת paolo Ramat <<a
href="mailto:paolo.ramat@unipv.it" moz-do-not-send="true">paolo.ramat@unipv.it</a>>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi everyone,
<div>Martin H. has written that <<there is confusion
also about ]...] the relation between "typology" and
"theory">>. I fully agree. But Martin says further
that <<the term "theory" can be used as a count noun
, or as a mass noun ("linguistic theory", "grammatical
theory">>. This sounds rather strange: I had always
thought that mass nouns are nouns such as 'sugar',
'blood', 'sand' etc. Can we consider abstract nouns like
'philosophy','theology' or even 'democracy' as mass
nouns? Let alone by adding an adjective as in
"linguistic/grammatic theory". This is not the habitual
use of the term and sounds confusing. </div>
<div>Paolo</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">prof. dr. Paolo Ramat
<div>
<div> Università di Pavia (retired)</div>
<div>Istituto Universitario Studi
Superiori (IUSS Pavia) (retired)</div>
<div>Accademia dei Lincei, Socio
corrispondente<br>
<div>'Academia Europaea'</div>
<div>'Societas Linguistica
Europaea', Honorary Member</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>piazzetta Arduino 11 - I 27100
Pavia</div>
<div>##39 0382 27027</div>
<div>347 044 98 44</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno mar 11 feb 2020
alle ore 10:47 Haspelmath, Martin <<a
href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>>
ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>I would talk about "confusion", not about "abuse",
because there are many different kinds of linguistic
theories. Moreover, the term "theory" can be used as a
count noun (as in the last sentence), or as a mass
noun ("linguistic theory", "grammatical theory").
Linguists rarely reflect on kinds of theories, or on
kinds of senses of the word "theory", and the papers
that Hartmut mentioned have not become well-known. So
there is a lot of confusion.<br>
<br>
In my 2010 paper on "Framework-free grammatical
theory" (<a href="https://zenodo.org/record/814947"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://zenodo.org/record/814947</a>),
I distinguished four senses of "theory".<br>
<br>
But there is confusion also about the relation between
"typology" and "theory": Quite a few people have
contrasted them as if they were different ways of
doing linguistics, or different parts of research,
e.g.<br>
<br>
<font size="-1">Hengeveld, Kees. 1992. <em>Non-verbal
predication: Theory, typology, diachrony</em>.
Berlin: Mouton de Gruyter.<br>
Polinsky, Maria & Robert Kluender. 2007.
Linguistic typology and theory construction: Common
challenges ahead.
<em>Linguistic Typology</em> 11(1). 273–283.<br>
Van Langendonck, Willy. 2008. <em>Theory and
typology of proper names</em>. Berlin: De Gruyter
Mouton.</font><br>
<br>
But on the other hand, it is clear that "atheoretical
typology" is impossible, so this usage is confusing.
See this recent blogpost, which proposes an
alternative:
<a href="https://dlc.hypotheses.org/1915"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://dlc.hypotheses.org/1915</a><br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<br>
On 11.02.20 10:18, Hartmut Haberland wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US">Jün-Tin Wang 1973. ”On the
representation of generative grammars as
first-order theories.” In: Radu J. Bogdan and
Ilkka Niinilouto eds.
<i>Logic,</i> <i>Language and Probability</i>.
Dordrecht: Reidel, 302-316</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US">Hans-Heinrich Lieb 1974. "Grammars
as theories: The case for axiomatic grammar
(Part I)".
<i>Theoretical Linguistics</i> 1: 39-115.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US">Hans-Heinrich Lieb 1976. "Grammars
as theories: The case for axiomatic grammar
(Part II)".
</span><i><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="DE-AT">Theoretical Linguistics</span></i><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="DE-AT"> 3: 1-98.</span><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="DE-AT"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"
lang="DE-AT"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Fra:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Hartmut Haberland
<a href="mailto:hartmut@ruc.dk"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true"><hartmut@ruc.dk></a>
<br>
<b>Sendt:</b> 11. februar 2020 09:33<br>
<b>Til:</b> TALLMAN Adam <a
href="mailto:Adam.TALLMAN@cnrs.fr"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<Adam.TALLMAN@cnrs.fr></a><br>
<b>Emne:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] The (ab)use of
the term "theory" in (generative)
linguistics</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hans-Heinrich
Lieb has written extensively about this in the
<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">7</span>0s,
also Jün-tin Wang. </span>Hartmut </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><br>
Den 11. feb. 2020 kl. 07.12 skrev TALLMAN Adam
<<a href="mailto:Adam.TALLMAN@cnrs.fr"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">Adam.TALLMAN@cnrs.fr</a>>:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Hello
all,
</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Does
anyone have any sources that discuss the
abuse of the term "theory" in generative
linguistics (or in linguistics
generally)? I figure that a paper like
this must exist given the deeply
insightful comments that I have received
by some reviewers.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">best,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Adam</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Adam
James Ross Tallman (PhD, UT
Austin)</span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black;background:white">ELDP-SOAS
-- Postdoctorant<br>
CNRS -- Dynamique Du Langage
(UMR 5596)<br>
Bureau 207, 14 av. Berthelot,
Lyon (07)</span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black;background:white">Numero
celular en bolivia: +59163116867</span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
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</div>
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<pre cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</a>)
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10
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&
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Institut fuer Anglistik
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D-04081 Leipzig </pre>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-556825895
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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