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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Dear Walter and all:</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div>I agree with Walter's comment about the citation of Chinese author names. Let me mention some figures.</div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> In China, where we have the population of 1.4 billion, some surnames are extremely frequent.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> Of each of the top three surnames, Zhang (for Taiwan spelling: Chang, and Hong Kong Cantonese spelling: Cheung), Wang (Cantonese: Wong), and Li (Hong Kong: Lee), we have around 100 million people. My Surname Liu is the fourth biggest one, with a <span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">population </span></span>around 60 million . Even within linguistic field, we have many many Zhangs, Wangs and Lis.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> So, Chinese usually identifies a person by his/her full name, especially in academic citation. The information such as Li (1998) or Wang (2008) or Zhang, J. 2005, Liu, T. 2016 is much less informative than we need. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> In addition, Chinese is a tone language. When we use Latin Script, the tone distinction between names is neutralized. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">So I prefer to keep longer forms for Chinese names in citation.<br><br> </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
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On Tuesday, March 31, 2020, 4:59:12 PM GMT+8, Bisang, Prof. Dr. Walter <wbisang@uni-mainz.de> wrote:
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<p>Dear Ian,</p>
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<p>taking up Christian Lehmann's mail, I first want to say that I fully support your view.</p>
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<p>Publishers may intend to save space but the consequences of that are that it may be hard to find and read the original paper. In many cases, these regulations even affect the author’s identification (and her/his rights). This can well be the case with Chinese
authors. Given the frequency of some surnames (e.g. Zhang), one also needs to see the first name in Chinese characters. Citations of the type of "Zhang, J.", as they are common practice in many scientific journals, are not very helpful.
<span>Of course, the real pecialists may easily be able to identify an other author even if her/his name is only given in transcription, but this cannot be taken for granted as soon as a paper is written for a somewhat wider audience.
</span>Other languages with Non-Latin script come with other problems but the overall problem is rarely discussed. Let me just point out one additional problem, which is the absence of a standardized transcription or the existence of several competing systems
of transcription.</p>
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<p>As for your suggestion of how to cite Chinese publications, I'd suggest to translate the title into English as well (for those who cannot read and speak the language).
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<p>All the best,</p>
<p>Walter (Bisang)<br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr" id="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583divRplyFwdMsg"><font style="font-size:11pt;" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Daniel Ross <djross3@gmail.com><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 31, 2020 9:17 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Joo, Ian<br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Why cite non-Latin-script literature ONLY in Latin script?</font>
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<div>Thanks for this question. I'd love to join in the discussion by saying that from my perspective, this practice is frustrating and harmful for my productivity. Specifically, I often work with references not written in a language that I know well. And it
can take me a very long time to reconstruct the original script representation of the for example romanized Chinese to guess what the actual characters were in order to locate the cited article. At that point I can slowly work through it using a mix of dictionaries,
Google Translate, etc. If from the perspective of a speaker of these languages this is also a problem, then I would strongly suggest the practice be ended immediately.</div>
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<div>Of course there is a historical explanation: it was once very hard to type out the scripts of non-Roman languages. But now that we've had unicode for a long time actually, that's no longer a relevant reason. If it were, we'd find journals publishing the
titles of articles in Romanized characters too, or at least listing them that way through search engines.</div>
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<div>Daniel<br clear="none">
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<div class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 12:10 AM Joo, Ian <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:joo@shh.mpg.de" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">joo@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">Dear all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">I would like to ask a question to everybody:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">When citing literature written in non-Latin script, why do some editors require it to be
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;">cited ONLY in Latin script?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;">For example, this is how I would cite a Chinese book, when writing an article in English:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">Xùliàn</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">旭</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">练</span><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">Lǐ</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">李</span><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">.<i>Láiyǔ
yánjiū</i></span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">倈语</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">硏究</span><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">.
Zhōngguó xīn fāxiàn yǔyán yánjiū cóngshū</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">中</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">国</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">新</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">发现语</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">言</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">研</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">究</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">丛书</span><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">.
Zhōngyāng mínzú dàxué chūbǎnshè</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">中央民族大</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">学</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">出版社</span><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">,
Běijīng</span><span lang="ZH-CN" style="font-size:12pt;">北京</span><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">As you can see, in both the original script (Chinese) and Latin script.
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt;">But some editors require it to be:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt;"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">Xùliàn Lǐ.
<i>Láiyǔ yánjiū</i>. Zhōngguó xīn fāxiàn yǔyán yánjiū cóngshū. Zhōngyāng mínzú dàxué chūbǎnshè, Běijīng.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">But why would we not write the original script and ONLY write in Latin script?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">The point of citing literature is to enable the reader to go find and consult it themself.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">But when the author’s name is written as
<i>Xùliàn Lǐ</i>, I have no idea how that would be written in Chinese, thus making it more difficult to find the literature when needed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">So what is the logical purpose of requiring the article to be cited ONLY in Latin script?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">The only logical reason I can think of is that it saves some space – ca. one line per citation. But is that a good enough reason to make things harder for those
actually wanting to find and read the cited work?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">I would like to hear your opinion on this matter.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">(I’m asking this question on Lingtyp mailing list, because our subfield makes it necessary for some of us to make extensive use of non-Latin-script literature.)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">From Daejeon,</span><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;">Ian</span><span lang="en-DE" style="font-size:12pt;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="ydp215220d4yiv6349392583MsoNormal"><span lang="en-DE"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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