<div dir="ltr">Dear David,<div><br></div><div>Japanese Zuu-jaa go does this, although I don't use this ludling so I don't have an intuition (I believe it became obsolete in the 90's). It looks like tri-moraic words follow the pattern 123 > 231 (Ito, Kitagawa & Mester 1996), such as <a href="http://pi.a.no" target="_blank">pi.a.no</a> 'piano' > ya.no.pi, <a href="http://shi.ka.ke" target="_blank">shi.ka.ke</a> 'trick' > ka.ke.shi, ma.zú.i 'tastes bad' > <a href="http://zu.i.ma" target="_blank">zu.i.ma</a>, ku.su.ri 'drug' > su.ri.ku. It appears that the location of the pitch accent doesn't matter: 'tastes bad' have accent on the penultimate mora while others are unaccented. </div><div><br></div><div>I hope this helps.</div><div><br></div><div><div>Reference:</div><div>Ito, Junko, Yoshihisa Kitagawa & Armin Mester. 1996. Prosodic faithfulness and correspondence: evidence from Japanese argot. Journal of East Asian Linguistics 5.3: 217-294.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Hiroto</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">El dom., 17 de may. de 2020 a la(s) 11:03, David Gil (<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>) escribió:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear all,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Ludlings (aka
play languages or secret languages) are often constructed by
reversing the
order of syllables in a word.<span> </span>Using
numerals to denote syllables, 12 > 21.<span>
</span>But what happens when there are three (or more) syllables
in the word?<span> </span>For
tri-syllabic words, the two most common
outcomes are</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(a) 123
> 312</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(b) 123
> 231</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The Riau
Indonesian ludling I have written about has the (a) pattern, eg.
<i>bahasa >
sabaha</i>. But a friend of mine in Papua has recently started
writing to me in
a ludling using the (b) pattern, e.g. <i>bahasa > hasaba</i>.<span> </span>Which got me curious.<span> </span>According to Wikipedia, the
French ludling <i>verlan</i>
may use either option, e.g. <i>cigarette</i> > <i>restiga</i>
or <i>garetsi</i>.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I would
appreciate any information you might be able to provide with
regard to syllable-reversing
ludlings of this kind that you might be familiar with in other
languages.<span> </span>Specifically,
I would like to know:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(1) which pattern is followed in tri-syllabic
words: (a), (b), or perhaps other?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(2) what is
the location of word-stress in the language?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The
motivation behind the second question is that I have a hunch
that the difference
between the ludlings in closely related Riau Indonesian and
Papuan Malay might
be due to their different stress patterns — a hypothesis that is
easily tested by
looking at a handful of other languages.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">David</span></p>
<p>
</p>
<pre cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-556825895
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Dr. Hiroto Uchihara</div><div><a href="https://sites.google.com/view/hiroto-uchihara/home?authuser=0" target="_blank">https://sites.google.com/view/hiroto-uchihara/home?authuser=0</a><br></div><div>Seminario de Lenguas Indígenas</div><div>Instituto de Investigaciones Filológicas</div><div>Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México</div><div>Circuito Mario de la Cueva</div><div>Ciudad Universitaria, 04510, Ciudad de México.</div><div>Tel. Seminario:(+52)-(55)-5622-7489</div><div>Office: (+52)-(55)-5622-7250, Ext. 49223</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>