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<p>Dear Sergey,</p>
<p>the practice you are referring to is indeed widespread among
Kurds of North Iraq, particularly those that retain a strong sense
of tradition.</p>
<p>There is a difference though to the practice mentioned by Nino
(below) in Georgian, where a grandmother can apparently address
her grandson with "granny" (Nino's example (b) below).</p>
<p>This would not be possible for Kurdish speakers; whichever
replacement form of address they use, the gender must match the
person addressed, so a mother could not address her son with
'mummy', only her daughter.</p>
<p>More generally this is part of a powerful tendency to avoid
addressing, or referring to, close kin with their given names.
Most clearly this is found among husbands and wives;
traditionally, one never refers to one's spouse with his/her given
name, but some kind of paraphrase, e.g. husband addresses / refers
to wife with 'mother of X', where X is the name of the eldest
daughter. There's a whole bunch of possibilities here,it gets
complicated and is poorly researched. Furthermore, these customs
are disappearing and younger generation Kurds do not taboo proper
names in the same manner, so it is getting increasingly difficult
to document this.</p>
<p>best</p>
<p>Geoff<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 18.08.2020 um 23:00 schrieb Nino
Amiridze:<br>
</div>
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<div>Dear Sergey,<br>
<br>
Georgian (Kartvelian) has the phenomenon. Young people may
get addressed by their older relatives by the term that
refers to the relatives themselves. For instance, if a
grandmother addresses her grandson (say, Giorgi), she may
address him by uttering (a) or (b):<br>
<br>
(a) giorgi, modi chemtan!<br>
Giorgi, come <a href="http://to.me" moz-do-not-send="true">to.me</a><br>
"
Giorgi, come to me!"<br>
<br>
or<br>
<br>
(b) bebia/bebiko, modi chemtan!<br>
grandmother/granny, come to me<br>
Lit.: grandmother, come to me!<br>
"Giorgi, come to me!"<br>
<br>
This phenomenon is discussed in Boeder 1988 (<a
href="http://www.staff.uni-oldenburg.de/winfried.boeder/download/52_Boeder_1988_Ueber_einige_Anredeformen_imKaukasus.pdf"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.staff.uni-oldenburg.de/winfried.boeder/download/52_Boeder_1988_Ueber_einige_Anredeformen_imKaukasus.pdf</a>),
where he mentions similar cases in Lebanese Arabic described
in Ayoub 1964 and Southern Italian dialects by Spitzer 1928.
In both cases, the phenomenon is known from baby talk, when
grown ups try to lower themselves to the level of children.
As a result, a role substitution happens. Boeder brings
Willis 1977 as a reference, according to which the role
substitution is an important play when children and grown
ups communicate in English baby talk.<br>
<br>
For me, as a native Georgian speaker, the explanation does
not exactly make sense for Georgian. Rather, the address
forms have always been a shortened forms of affectionate
formulas:<br>
<br>
bebia [genacvalos / shemogevlos], modi chemtan!<br>
grandmother [will.secrifice.herself.for.you], come to me</div>
<div>'"X, come to me" (where X is a name of a grandkid)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
I wonder what other native speakers have to say about the
role substitution in Georgian. And I would be curious to
learn whether the mentioned languages or others illustrating
the phenomenon can have the 'role mirroring' due to
shortening of blessing formulas.<br>
<br>
References:<br>
<br>
Ayoub, Millicent R. 1964. Bi-polarity in Arabic kinship
terms. In Horace G. Lunt (ed.). Proceedings of the Ninth
International Congress of Linguists. The Hague: Mouton, pp.
1100-1106.<br>
<br>
Boeder, Winfried, 1988. Über einige Anredeformen im
Kaukasus. Georgika, Heft 11, pp. 11-20.<br>
<br>
Spitzer, Leo, 1928. Über Personenvertauschung in der
Ammensprache. In L. Spitzer, Stilstudien. Hueber, München,
1928, pp. 26-38.<br>
<br>
Wills, Dorothy Davis, 1977. Participant deixis in English
baby talk. In: C.E. Snow and Ch. A. Ferguson (eds.), Talking
to Children. Language Input and Acquisition. Papers from a
conference sponsored by the Committee on Sociolinguistics of
the Social Science Research Council (USA). Cambridge,
Cambridge University Press, pp. 271-295.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Nino</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 9:26
PM Sergey Loesov <<a href="mailto:sergeloesov@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sergeloesov@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
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0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
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<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Dear
colleagues,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">In
various cultures (those I know of happen to be mostly
Islamic) the form of address can be copied by the
addressee. Thus, when a
daughter addresses her mother as “Mummy”, the mother
often reciprocates, saying
to the daughter something like “yes, Mummy”, or “what,
Mummy…” (Same of course
with a son and his father.) </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">In
particular, I came across this kind of exchange in my
fieldwork with Kurdish (Kurmanji) and some contemporary
Aramaic varieties in Upper
Mesopotamia and Syria, but this phenomenon is also
current in the Soqotri
language, an unwritten Semitic language spoken on the
Socotra Island in the
Indian Ocean, southeast of Yemen. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Are
we aware of explanations for this kind of usage? Are
there cross-language studies of this kind of facts?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Thank
you very much!</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in
8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Sergey</p>
</div>
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<br>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">Dr. Nino Amiridze<br>
<br>
E-mail: <a href="mailto:Nino.Amiridze@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Nino.Amiridze@gmail.com</a><br>
WWW: <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/ninoamiridze/"
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Prof. Dr. Geoffrey Haig
Lehrstuhl Allgemeine Sprachwissenschaft
Institut fuer Orientalistik
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