<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} --></style>
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir="ltr">
<p>PS My two papers on serialization with 'take' in English are on academia.edu, not academia.com. Thank-you to those who pointed out the error.</p>
<div id="Signature">
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:; margin:0">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family:Times-Roman,serif">
__________</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family:Times-Roman,serif">
Paul J. Hopper</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family:Times-Roman,serif">
Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor Emeritus of Humanities</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family:Times-Roman,serif">
Department of English</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family:Times-Roman,serif">
Carnegie Mellon University</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-family:Times-Roman,serif">
Pittsburgh PA 15213, USA</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Anne Tamm <TammA@ceu.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 24, 2020 1:21:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] 'Take' as diachronic source for causative? 'Stand' for ingressive?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Hi,</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Very challenging questions. Maybe looking at analytical causatives helps understand the mechanisms behind the grammaticalization of TAKE as a causative morpheme. </span><span style="color: rgb(77, 81, 86); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">There
is a book on analytical causatives across languages by Leino and von Waldenfels, </span>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255)">
<span style="margin: 0px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif"><span style="margin: 0px; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(77, 81, 86); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255)"><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Analytical-causatives-Studies-Language-Typology/dp/3862883620" style="margin: 0px"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">https://www.amazon.com/Analytical-causatives-Studies-Language-Typology/dp/3862883620</span></a></span></span></p>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">In any case, TAKE can be found as a "causativizer" in Estonian analytical causatives, although LET and PUT/SET are more common. GIVE is also used in analytical causatives (in Finnish,
the GIVE analytical causatives are more common, see Leino). Among the Uralic languages, Estonian is an outlier, as there are many analytical causatives and no productive morphological causativization. T</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">he
diachronically motivated morhpeme -ta is still recognized in lexical pairs as in
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i style="font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; font-weight: inherit;">hüppama</i></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
'jump', </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i style="font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; font-weight: inherit;">hüpitama</i></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
'throw something repeatedly up', </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i style="font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; font-weight: inherit;">istuma</i></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
'sit', </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><i style="font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; font-weight: inherit;">istutama</i></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
'plant'. </span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Different verbs occur with different causativizers and with different constructions with non-finites. The TAKE type occurs with verbs that denote mental or physical (involuntary) states,
processes or activities, such as think, ponder, shiver, shudder, tremble, cry, weep, etc. But the combination is not lexicalized/grammaticalized, rather the types of event relationships go with different causativizers and nonfinite encoding (GIVE or TAKE are
both ok with 'think', for instance). </span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">The lexical sense number 5 in the Comprehensive Estonian Dictionary provides some analytical causative examples </span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<a href="https://www.eki.ee/dict/ekss/index.cgi?Q=v%C3%B5tma&F=M"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">https://www.eki.ee/dict/ekss/index.cgi?Q=v%C3%B5tma&F=M</span></a><o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span class="tpstnr"><b><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 12pt;">5</span></b></span><b><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; font-size: 12pt;">.</span></b><span style="font-family:"Arial Unicode MS",sans-serif;color:black"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span><span class="d"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">mingit
seisundit v. tegevust esile kutsuma</span></span></span><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">
</span><span><o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> (= bring about a state or an action)</span></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><span><o:p><br>
</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><span><o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Here are two typical examples, translated from the dictionary:</span></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Hirm
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>võtt-is värise-ma </b></span></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><span><o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">fear take-3sg.pst shake-M_INF</span></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><span><o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">'I trembled from fear (Fear made me shiver).'</span></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><span><o:p><br>
</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><span><o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Jooks võta-b hingelda-ma/higista-ma</span></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><span><o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">running. take-3sg pant/sweat-M_ILL</span></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><span><o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">'[this concrete event of] running is making me pant/sweat.'</span></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><span><o:p><br>
</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><span><o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">Interestingly, the causer of the TAKE causatives is usually an emotional event
that causes a durative event, an uncontrollable or in any case involuntary, unintended, unplanned reaction. </span></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><span><o:p><br>
</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(77, 81, 86); background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;">pilt
on kehv- ju </span><em style="font-size: 12pt; font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; font-weight: inherit;"><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(95, 99, 104); background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;">võtt-is</span></b></em><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(77, 81, 86); background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;">
käe </span><em style="font-size: 12pt; font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; font-weight: inherit;"><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(95, 99, 104); background-image: initial; background-position: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial;">värise-ma</span></b></em><o:p style="font-size: 12pt; font-style: inherit; font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; font-weight: inherit;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span></o:p><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">picture is bad probably take-3sg.pst hand.acc shake-M_INF</span></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">'The photo is vague - probably my hand was shaking (something caused my hand to shake).'</span></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<a href="http://fotoalbum.ee/photos/saba00/22184985"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">http://fotoalbum.ee/photos/saba00/22184985</span></a><o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span><span style="color: rgb(77, 81, 86); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(77, 81, 86); background: white;">Et siis mõne pagaritoote seest karva leides </span><b><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(95, 99, 104); background: white;">võta-b
mõtle-ma</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(77, 81, 86); background: white;">?</span><span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-size:
10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#4D5156;background:white"><o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">that then some bakery.item.gen PP hair find_NONFIN take-3sg think-M_INF</span></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<o:p style="font-size: 12pt; font-style: inherit; font-variant-ligatures: inherit; font-variant-caps: inherit; font-weight: inherit;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">'So you say that it makes you think [all kinds of
things], once you find a hair in your bakery item?'</span></o:p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> </span><br>
</p>
</o:p></span>
<p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<a href="https://www.foorum69.org/viewtopic.php?t=2032"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">https://www.foorum69.org/viewtopic.php?t=2032</span></a><o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span></o:p></p>
<br>
<p></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(77, 81, 86); background: white"><span style="margin: 0px"><o:p><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">The TAKE verb is usually impersonally
used, and the main verb has the illative (to, into) type nonfinite form (supine), as there is a change of state. GIVE and TAKE are in this sense different.
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>GIVE + think</b></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"> and
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b>TAK</b></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; font-size: 12pt;"><b>E + think</b></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; font-size: 12pt;">
differ in the choice of the nonfinite as well, because of the difference between the causal-temporal relationships of the two events (causing and caused). </span></o:p></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> </span><span style="color: rgb(77, 81, 86); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">GIVE
+ think causatives represent voluntary caused events, moreover, a matter of considerable mental effort.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(77, 81, 86); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255)"><br>
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(77, 81, 86); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">I am now just brushing up a manuscript in my drawer, so I am interested in
further discussions! </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(77, 81, 86); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Best,</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(77, 81, 86); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Anne Tamm</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(77, 81, 86); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255)"><br>
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(77, 81, 86); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255)"><br>
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(77, 81, 86); background: white"><span style="margin: 0px"><o:p><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important"><br>
</span></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(77, 81, 86); background: white"><span style="margin: 0px"><o:p><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important"><br>
</span></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(77, 81, 86); background: white"><span style="margin: 0px"><o:p><br>
</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: "Times New Roman", serif">
<span style="margin: 0px; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(77, 81, 86); background: white"><span style="margin: 0px"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div id="appendonsend"></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Epps, Patience L <pattieepps@austin.utexas.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 20, 2020 6:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] 'Take' as diachronic source for causative? 'Stand' for ingressive?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word">Dear Claudia,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In Hup, a Naduhup language of NW Amazonia, ‘take’ is the source of the primary/default causativizer in SVCs (among a few other causativizing strategies, also from verbs). For example:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="" style="margin:0px; font-size:11px; line-height:normal">denícon <span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">
</span>tɨh-an <span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>d’oʔ-ʔɔt-ɔh</div>
<div class="" style="margin:0px; font-size:11px; line-height:normal">Denilson <span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">
</span>3sg-<span class="" style="font-size:9px; line-height:normal">OBJ <span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre">
</span></span>take-cry-<span class="" style="font-size:9px; line-height:normal">DECL</span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0px; font-size:11px; line-height:normal">‘Denilson made him cry!’ </div>
</div>
<div class="" style="margin:0px; font-size:11px; line-height:normal"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="" style="margin:0px; font-size:11px; line-height:normal">This is discussed in Ch. 9 of my Hup grammar (Epps 2008, A Grammar of Hup, de Gruyter Mouton), mostly from p.399 and forward (though there I noted the impression that this was not so unusual
typologically - maybe this was incorrect!). </div>
<div class="" style="margin:0px; font-size:11px; line-height:normal"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="" style="margin:0px; font-size:11px; line-height:normal">Please let me know if you’d like more info and I’ll be glad to send it, and thanks for raising this interesting topic.</div>
<div class="" style="margin:0px; font-size:11px; line-height:normal"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="" style="margin:0px; font-size:11px; line-height:normal">All best,</div>
<div class="" style="margin:0px; font-size:11px; line-height:normal">Pattie</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Aug 20, 2020, at 5:53 AM, David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" class="">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="x_Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<p class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">
Dear Claudia,</p>
<div class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">
<br class="x_webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang="EN-US" class="">A complex pattern of polysemy involving, among many other items, 'take' and causative, is described in Gil (2017) for several languages of Northwest New Guinea, Austronesian and Non-Austronesian.<span class=""> <span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>A
possible example of partial 'take'/causative coexpression is provided by the isolate language Yawa.<span class=""> <span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>More commonly, though, the 'take'/causative connection is mediated by 'give', with lots
of languages exhibiting 'take'/'give' coexpression (e.g. Hatam, Meyah, Irarutu), and many other languages in the same region (e.g. Abun, Waropen, Roon) displaying 'give'/causative coexpression.</span></div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">
<span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 27pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-align:justify; text-indent:-27pt">
<span class="">Gil, David (2017) "Roon ve, DO/GIVE Coexpression, and Language Contact in Northwest New Guinea", in A. Schapper ed.,<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">Contact and Substrate in the Languages of Wallacea Part 1</i>,<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">NUSA</i><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>62:41-100.
(<a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://hdl.handle.net/10108/89844">http://hdl.handle.net/10108/89844</a>)</span></div>
<p class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">
Best,</p>
<p class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">
David<br class="">
</p>
<div class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">
<br class="x_webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">
On 18/08/2020 15:06, Claudia Wegener wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<p class="">Dear all,<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</p>
<p class="">It was suggested to me that grammaticalization of the verb 'take' to a causative marker is typologically unusual, and indeed, apart from the mention of Twi and Nupe (in Kuteva et al. 2019 and sources cited therein) and Fon (Lefebvre 1991) I have
found little to no information on languages where this has happened... Would any of you know any other languages and could point me towards publications I could cite?<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</p>
<p class="">And related to this, I have been even less successful at finding languages where the verb for 'to stand' (as posture verb) has been grammaticalized to function as a marker for ingressive - if you know of any, would you be so kind to point me to
any publications?</p>
<p class="">Many thanks in advance,</p>
<p class="">Claudia</p>
<p class="">References:<br class="">
</p>
<div class=""><br class="x_webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="x_MsoBibliography"><span lang="EN-GB" class="" style="line-height:12.84000015258789px">Lefebvre, Claire. 1991.<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">Take</i><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span>serial verb constructions
in Fon. In Claire Lefebvre (ed.),<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">Serial Verbs: Grammatical, Comparative</i><span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">and Cognitive Approaches</i>, 37-78. Amsterdam, Philadelphia: Benjamins.<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoBibliography"><span lang="EN-GB" class="" style="line-height:12.84000015258789px">Kuteva, Tania, Bernd Heine, Bo Hong, Haiping Long, Heiko Narrog & Seongha Rhee (eds.). 2019.<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">World Lexicon
of Grammaticalization</i>, 2nd edition. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.</span></p>
<pre class="x_moz-signature" cols="72">--
Claudia Wegener
Abteilung Allgemeine Sprachwissenschaft
Institut für Linguistik
Universität zu Köln
Albertus-Magnus-Platz
50923 Köln</pre>
<br class="">
<fieldset class="x_mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="x_moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="x_moz-signature" cols="72" style="font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; word-spacing:0px">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-556825895
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
<span class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; float:none; display:inline!important">_______________________________________________</span><br class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">
<span class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; float:none; display:inline!important">Lingtyp
mailing list</span><br class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">
<a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">
<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">
<blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant-caps:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this <<<br class="">
matters at<span class="x_Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf" class="">https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf</a>. <<<br class="">
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>