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<p>Hi Claudia,</p>
<p>you can have a look at Françoise Rivierre's paper <span
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana, Geneva,
sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255,
255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; display: inline !important; float: none;">The evolution
of the verb "take" in New Caledonian languages<i>,</i><span></span></span></p>
<p>in <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana,
Geneva, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255,
255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; display: inline !important; float: none;">Isabelle Bril
& Françoise Ozanne-Rivierre Editors. 2004.<span> </span></span><i
style="font-family: Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-size:
12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style:
initial; text-decoration-color: initial;">Complex Predicates in
Oceanic Languages.</i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration-style:
initial; text-decoration-color: initial; display: inline
!important; float: none;"><span> </span>Berlin New York: Mouton
de Gruyter, Empirical Approaches to Language Typology 29, 398 p.
ISBN 3-11-018188-6.</span></p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana, Geneva,
sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255,
255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; display: inline !important; float: none;">Best</span></p>
<p><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana, Geneva,
sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255,
255); text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; display: inline !important; float: none;">Isabelle<br>
</span></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 20/08/2020 à 14:21, Claudia Wegener
a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:4706c771-939a-0bd0-5b32-00a9705f1f75@uni-koeln.de">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Hi Daniel,</p>
<p>thanks, yes, I am aware of those functions of 'take' SVCs (also
discussed in Lee (2019), which I'm sure you will know) and
Lefebvre's work. 'Take' to Inceptive was not so much my
interest, but thanks for the interesting slides!<br>
</p>
<p>The language I'm working on (Savosavo, Non-Austronesian) does
use transitive 'take' in SVCs as the general marker for
causation. The subject of 'take' is the causer, and object of
'take' is subject of the (necessarily intransitive) verb that
follows. It is never used in any intransitive form or in any way
altered in morphology or phonetic form. I agree that the
development has to have followed a path from what you said below
("The more common pattern seems to me to be 'Take NP (and) V
(it)', so not causative in terms of alignment but similar in
function. I'm not sure about whether or how often that pattern
might shift alignment to 'Make NP V'."), i.e. in symmetrical,
sequential serial verb constructions first, and then extended to
asymmetrical SVCs, with the shifted alignment pattern. I do find
it a bit puzzling that it seems to have happened so rarely in
other languages, even though it seems a perfectly intuitive
development to me :) <br>
</p>
<p>Also in light of the other answers I received so far, I guess
it is quite safe to say then that this development is rather
rare...</p>
<p>As for my question about 'stand' ->
inchoative/inceptive/ingressive, I did mean 'stand' in the sense
of 'be standing'; Savosavo does have a separate (though related)
word for 'stand/get up', which is not used for this grammatical
function.<br>
</p>
<p>Thanks again, best wishes,</p>
<p>Claudia<br>
</p>
<p>References<br>
</p>
<p>Lee, Taegyeong. 2019. A cross-linguistic typology of ‘take’
serial verb constructions. Albuquerque, New Mexico: University
of New Mexico MA thesis. <a
href="https://digitalrepository.unm.edu/ling_etds/69"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://digitalrepository.unm.edu/ling_etds/69</a>.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20-Aug-20 01:38, Daniel Ross
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAm4d-7YEuX6sU3BgE=2Q=4w723aCGd7Pa81UzaG61xkMT4bZA@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Claudia,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>TAKE is extremely common in transitive functions in
serial verb constructions, with a range of meanings
including instrumental, comitative and sometimes just
accusative. There's no shortage of literature on the topic
(including several more papers by Lefebvre), but for a
preliminary large-scale survey, see:</div>
<div><a
href="https://swl8.sciencesconf.org/data/pages/Ross_Lovestrand_SWL8.pdf"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://swl8.sciencesconf.org/data/pages/Ross_Lovestrand_SWL8.pdf</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However, TAKE is rarer as an intransitive auxiliary with
inceptive (or similar) semantics. One specific regional
exception is "TAKE AND V" pseudocoordination as found in
dozens of European languages. The meaning is similar to "GO
AND V", in the sense of surprise, unexpectedness, defiance,
self-initiative, etc. This has been written about by a
number of authors, but I am working on a more comprehensive
survey in Eurasia, where I've so far identified this usage
in about 60 languages:</div>
<div><a
href="http://publish.illinois.edu/djross3/files/2013/11/Ross-tomar-y.pdf"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://publish.illinois.edu/djross3/files/2013/11/Ross-tomar-y.pdf</a></div>
<div>(Slides in Spanish, but should be easy enough to follow
with the maps.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Aside from pseudocoordination (or rare asyndetic
variants) within that geographic area, SVCs (etc.) with
"take" are quite rare in that intransitive sense. Something
like that is found in Haitian Creole, and there's an
auxiliary in Arabic that is similar, but in general this
particular semantic configuration seems anomalously common
in Europe (suggesting contact effects, but with unclear and
possibly many pathways, as discussed in the slides). Another
related usage is auto-benefactive "take" (as opposed to
"give"), as described by Creissels 2010 for example (cited
in the slides).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The meanings I've described above are not causative
exactly, but I think somewhat semantically related to that
might give you more information to consider. Further
grammaticalization into marking a causative seems plausible
from TAKE SVCs, for example. The more common pattern seems
to me to be "Take NP (and) V (it)", so not causative in
terms of alignment but similar in function. I'm not sure
about whether or how often that pattern might shift
alignment to "Make NP V".<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>STAND/GET UP is used similarly to the TAKE (AND)
construction above, in Arabic and some other languages of
the Middle East (presumably also due to contact), sort of
blending into the edges of the TAKE AND distribution. For
Arabic, search for research on "qam" (and cognates in
different varieties), often grammaticalized as an ingressive
particle in colloquial varieties.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd be happy to discuss this topic more, but that
addresses at least the specific questions asked. I'd be
interested to hear more about your research on these topics.
I can supply additional references if you'd like. (Feel free
to write off-list if you prefer.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Daniel<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 4:03
PM Claudia Wegener <<a
href="mailto:claudia.wegener@uni-koeln.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">claudia.wegener@uni-koeln.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Dear all, <br>
</p>
<p>It was suggested to me that grammaticalization of the
verb 'take' to a causative marker is typologically
unusual, and indeed, apart from the mention of Twi and
Nupe (in Kuteva et al. 2019 and sources cited therein)
and Fon (Lefebvre 1991) I have found little to no
information on languages where this has happened...
Would any of you know any other languages and could
point me towards publications I could cite? <br>
</p>
<p>And related to this, I have been even less successful
at finding languages where the verb for 'to stand' (as
posture verb) has been grammaticalized to function as a
marker for ingressive - if you know of any, would you be
so kind to point me to any publications?</p>
<p>Many thanks in advance,</p>
<p>Claudia</p>
<p>References:<br>
</p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="line-height:107%" lang="EN-GB">Lefebvre,
Claire. 1991. <i>Take</i> serial verb constructions
in Fon. In Claire Lefebvre (ed.), <i>Serial Verbs:
Grammatical, Comparative</i> <i>and Cognitive
Approaches</i>, 37-78. Amsterdam, Philadelphia:
Benjamins. <br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="line-height:107%" lang="EN-GB">Kuteva,
Tania, Bernd Heine, Bo Hong, Haiping Long, Heiko
Narrog & Seongha Rhee (eds.). 2019. <i>World
Lexicon of Grammaticalization</i>, 2nd edition.
Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.</span></p>
<pre cols="72">--
Claudia Wegener
Abteilung Allgemeine Sprachwissenschaft
Institut für Linguistik
Universität zu Köln
Albertus-Magnus-Platz
50923 Köln</pre>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Claudia Wegener
Abteilung Allgemeine Sprachwissenschaft
Institut für Linguistik
Universität zu Köln
Albertus-Magnus-Platz
50923 Köln</pre>
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Isabelle Bril
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