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Hi,</div>
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just a brief follow-up/correction to my earlier email. With respect to Khwe, Kilian-Hatz (2008: 21) distinguishes between free vowel-initial grammatical morphemes, which are usually preceded by a glottal stop, and vowel-initial suffixes, which are not. This
analysis seems to be based on the same overall reasoning even though one could of course question it (e.g., to what extent are the free morphemes really vowel-initial?).</div>
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Kilian-Hatz, Christa. 2008. A grammar of Modern Khwe (Central Khoisan). Cologne: Rüdiger Köppe.</div>
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Best,</div>
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Tim</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Hiroto Uchihara <uchihara@buffalo.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 27, 2020 11:22 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Gil <gil@shh.mpg.de><br>
<b>Cc:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] query: how do ludlings apply to ideophones?</font>
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<div dir="ltr">Dear David,
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<div>In Japanese "babi-go", which inserts a syllable -bV after each mora, this -bV apply this to ideophones too (as well as to final particles), as in (2), at least for me:</div>
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<div>(1) mógumogu-to tabé-másh-ita=ká</div>
<div> IDEO-CITA eat-POLIT-PAST=Q</div>
<div> 'Did (you) munch on it?'</div>
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<div>(2) mobógúbúmóbúgubu-tobo tababébémábáshibitaba=kábá</div>
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<div>Maybe the Japanese babi-go is based more on orthography, at least in my case; I wonder how illiterate speakers would react.</div>
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<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>Hiroto </div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">El jue., 27 de ago. de 2020 a la(s) 12:00, David Gil (<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>) escribió:<br>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear all,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Does anybody have any data on whether and how ludlings apply to ideophones?</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(Terminology: Ludlings, also known as language games, or secret languages, are specialized speech styles in which you do things like insert a [b] in every syllable, or reverse the order of syllables in a word.<span>
</span>Ideophones are forms that appear to stand apart from the regular grammatical<span>
</span>rules and constraints of the language, both phonologically and in terms of their meanings which often contain an affective component; although most renowned from languages of West Africa and Mainland Southeast Asia, they are found in most or all languages.)</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My prediction, which I would like to test, is that ideophones will be opaque to ludlings, that is to say, when applying to an utterance containing an ideophone, the ludling will "skip over" the ideophone and not apply
to it.<span> </span>But of course I could be wrong ...</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Elsewhere I have observed that in languages with (typically sentence-final) pragmatic particles, such particles are opaque to ludlings, and I used this to argue that such particles lie on a separate and largely suprasegmental
tier to which the ludling does not apply.<span> </span>I would like to explore whether a similar argument might also be applicable to ideophones — hence this query.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">David<br>
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<pre cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-556825895
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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<div>Dr. Hiroto Uchihara</div>
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<div>Seminario de Lenguas Indígenas</div>
<div>Instituto de Investigaciones Filológicas</div>
<div>Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México</div>
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