<html><DIV>Right. This German example looks a lot like the Sanskrit examples that I looked at in my dissertation 30 years ago, on 'Free Word-Order Syntax'. Obviously, German isn't as 'free' in this regard as Sanskrit, Latin, or the other early IE languages, but there's no question that this kind of thing occurs in human language.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Is this 'X0 extraction'? In mine analysis of the Sanskrit data, I felt it was better to adopt a preliminary assumption that intervening phrasal nodes might simply be 'erased' and the words making up the phrase could be freely 'scattered' about the clause. Trying to account for the Sanskrit data in terms of 'extraction' of individual words just muddies the waters. But I'm pretty sure that's not true for German.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV>Steven</DIV>
<DIV><br>
-----Original message-----<br>
<B>From:</B>Martin Haspelmath<haspelmath@shh.mpg.de><br>
<B>To:</B>lingtyp<lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<B>Date: </B>Thu, 27 Aug 2020 00:57:36<br>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: [Lingtyp] Morpheme or X0 "extraction"<br>
<X-BODY />But what is an "X0" element? We'd have to know this in order to test Bruening's claim. Note that German "gelungen" is not a single morph (or "morpheme"). It is a complex form "ge-lung-en".<br>
<br>
There does not seem to be a clear comparative concept "phrase" (vs. "non-phrasal element") that one could apply in the same way to all languages.<br>
<br>
Moreover, what exactly is "extraction"? It is fairly clear when we talk about question-word fronting (or relative-pronoun fronting), but "topic-fronting" occurs in a wide variety of ways.<br>
<br>
So it seems that, as so often, we need better definitions of concepts before we can rigorously test universal claims.<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix>Am 26.08.20 um 14:42 schrieb Adam James Ross Tallman:<br>
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<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: #4c1130">Hey all,</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: #4c1130"><br>
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<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: #4c1130">Just to clarify, I'm asking because I'm wondering how frequent apparent counter examples are to <A href="https://babel.ucsc.edu/~hank/105/Bruening_2018.pdf" moz-do-not-send="true">Bruening</A>'s claim that X0 elements cannot be extracted.</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: #4c1130"><br>
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<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: #4c1130">Adam<br>
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<DIV class=gmail_attr dir=ltr>On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 1:49 PM Adam James Ross Tallman <<A href="mailto:ajrtallman@utexas.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">ajrtallman@utexas.edu</A>> wrote:<br>
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<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)">Hello all,</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)"><br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)">I am wondering if anyone has found examples where single morphemes can extract to first position. It is well-known that German can do this as in <br>
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<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)"><br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)"><I>Gelungen ist hier selten wem was auf anhieb</I></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)">succeeded is here rarely somebody.DAT something.NOM on first.attempt</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)">'that it was rarely the case that somebody succeeded in doing something here on the first attempt'<BR clear=all></DIV>
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<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)">For some reason the full VP cannot extract (<I>*Wem gelunden ist hier selten was auf anhieb</I>). You can modify the fronted verb with an adverb <I>so gut </I>and apparently its grammatical (Bruening 2018)<br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)"><br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)">In Chácobo one can "extract" individual adverbial elements, but as far as I can tell only one of these elements can be "extracted" at a time.<br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)"><br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)"><I>tsaya=yama=kɨ</I></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)">see=neg=dec:past</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)"><I><B>yama</B> tsaya=kɨ</I></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)"><B>neg</B> see=dec:past<br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)">'s/he didn't see it.'</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)"><br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)">I wonder if there are cases like Chacobo or like German except where the verb cannot be modified by some element that is also fronted. Just instances of apparently non-phrasal (word, root or stem) extraction would also be interesting.</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)"><br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)">p.s. I don't exactly know what extraction means all the time. In particular I'm not sure on what basis we can always assume that one sentence is derived from the other. For instance, in Chacobo I don't know on what basis I would assume that the verb is not in fact undergoing rightward extraction.<br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)"><br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)">best,<br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)"><br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)">Adam<br>
</DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_default style="FONT-FAMILY: monospace,monospace; COLOR: rgb(76,17,48)"><br>
</DIV><br>
</DIV>
<DIV><br>
</DIV>-- <br>
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<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face="times new roman,
serif">Adam J.R. Tallman</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face="times new roman,
serif">PhD, University of Texas at Austin<br>
</FONT>
<DIV><FONT face="times new roman, serif">Investigador del Museo de Etnografía y Folklore, la Paz<br>
</FONT>
<DIV><FONT face="times new roman, serif"><FONT style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT size=+0>ELDP -- </FONT>Postdoctorante<br>
</FONT><FONT style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT size=+0>CNRS -- </FONT>Dynamique Du Langage (UMR 5596)</FONT></FONT><br>
</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR clear=all><br>
-- <br>
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<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face="times new roman, serif">Adam J.R. Tallman</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face="times new roman, serif">PhD, University of Texas at Austin<br>
</FONT>
<DIV><FONT face="times new roman, serif">Investigador del Museo de Etnografía y Folklore, la Paz<br>
</FONT>
<DIV><FONT face="times new roman, serif"><FONT style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT size=+0>ELDP -- </FONT>Postdoctorante<br>
</FONT><FONT style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT size=+0>CNRS -- </FONT>Dynamique Du Langage (UMR 5596)</FONT></FONT><br>
</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><br>
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</DIV><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:haspelmath@shh.mpg.de">haspelmath@shh.mpg.de</A>)
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
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&
Leipzig University
Institut fuer Anglistik
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