<div dir="ltr">Dear David,<div><br></div><div>In Japanese "babi-go", which inserts a syllable -bV after each mora, this -bV apply this to ideophones too (as well as to final particles), as in (2), at least for me:</div><div><br></div><div>(1) mógumogu-to tabé-másh-ita=ká</div><div> IDEO-CITA eat-POLIT-PAST=Q</div><div> 'Did (you) munch on it?'</div><div><br></div><div>(2) mobógúbúmóbúgubu-tobo tababébémábáshibitaba=kábá</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe the Japanese babi-go is based more on orthography, at least in my case; I wonder how illiterate speakers would react.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Hiroto </div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">El jue., 27 de ago. de 2020 a la(s) 12:00, David Gil (<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>) escribió:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear all,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Does
anybody have any data on whether and how ludlings apply to
ideophones?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(Terminology:
Ludlings, also known as language games, or secret languages, are
specialized speech
styles in which you do things like insert a [b] in every
syllable, or reverse the
order of syllables in a word.<span> </span>Ideophones
are forms that appear to stand apart from the regular
grammatical<span> </span>rules and
constraints of the language, both
phonologically and in terms of their meanings which often
contain an affective
component; although most renowned from languages of West Africa
and Mainland
Southeast Asia, they are found in most or all languages.)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My
prediction, which I would like to test, is that ideophones will
be opaque to
ludlings, that is to say, when applying to an utterance
containing an ideophone,
the ludling will "skip over" the ideophone and not apply to it.<span> </span>But of course I could be
wrong ...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Elsewhere I
have observed that in languages with (typically sentence-final)
pragmatic
particles, such particles are opaque to ludlings, and I used
this to argue that
such particles lie on a separate and largely suprasegmental tier
to which the
ludling does not apply.<span> </span>I
would like to
explore whether a similar argument might also be applicable to
ideophones —
hence this query.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">David<br>
</span></p>
<p>
</p>
<pre cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-556825895
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Dr. Hiroto Uchihara</div><div><a href="https://sites.google.com/view/hiroto-uchihara/home?authuser=0" target="_blank">https://sites.google.com/view/hiroto-uchihara/home?authuser=0</a><br></div><div>Seminario de Lenguas Indígenas</div><div>Instituto de Investigaciones Filológicas</div><div>Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México</div><div>Circuito Mario de la Cueva</div><div>Ciudad Universitaria, 04510, Ciudad de México.</div><div>Tel. Seminario:(+52)-(55)-5622-7489</div><div>Office: (+52)-(55)-5622-7250, Ext. 49223</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>