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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black; mso-themecolor:
text1">Dear Rodrigo,<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black; mso-themecolor:
text1"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black; mso-themecolor:
text1">As stated by the most comprehensive descriptive grammar of Finnish (<a href="http://scripta.kotus.fi/visk/sisallys.php?p=1151" id="LPlnk543421">http://scripta.kotus.fi/visk/sisallys.php?p=1151</a>,
in Finnish), <i>kun</i> clauses occur as object-like (complement) clauses (mainly) with verbs of remembering and perception, especially with the verbs
<i>muistaa</i> 'remember' and <i>nähdä</i> 'see', and these clauses may often also be interpreted as adverbial clauses (e.g., I remember that (or: the time when) you did it; I saw that you did it).<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black; mso-themecolor:
text1"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black; mso-themecolor:
text1">I don't think that
<i>kun</i> can be used with utterance predicates, but as for cognitition predicates, it depends on what counts as cognition. If verbs for 'remember' (<i>muistaa</i>), 'wonder; be surprised' (<i>ihmetellä</i> in our example) are not cognitition verbs, perhaps
<i>ymmärtää</i> 'understand' is? According to my intuition, (3) sounds pretty natural as well:<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black">(3) <i>Mä ymmärrän,
<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>että/kun ne lähtee näin aikaisin. </i></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black; mso-themecolor:text1"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black"> 1SG understand.1SG COMP/<i>kun</i> 3PL go.3 this early </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black; mso-themecolor:text1"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New""> 'I understand <b>that</b> they go out (this) early.' <span style="color:black;mso-themecolor:text1"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black; mso-themecolor:
text1"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black; mso-themecolor:
text1">On the other hand, it appears to me that verbs for 'think' and 'know' do not take
<i>kun</i> clauses as their complements, only those with <i>että</i>.<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black; mso-themecolor:
text1"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black; mso-themecolor:
text1">Best regards,<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black; mso-themecolor:
text1"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black; mso-themecolor:
text1">Jussi<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Frá:</b> tiritiri trauntraun <hernaitz@hotmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> mánudagur, 28. september 2020 18:41<br>
<b>Til:</b> Jussi Ylikoski <jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi>; LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG <LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG><br>
<b>Efni:</b> RE: From causal to complement markers</font>
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<span lang="ES">Thanks very much to Jess Tauber and Jissu Ylikoski for your comments.</span></p>
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<span lang="ES"> </span></p>
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<span lang="ES">@Jissu Ylikoski, may I ask one more question about your Finnish ideolect? You provided the following example:</span></p>
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<span lang="ES"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black">(2)
<i>Mä ihmettelen, että/<b>kun</b> ne lähtee näin aikaisin. </i></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black"> 1SG wonder.1SG COMP/<i>kun</i> 3PL go.3 this early </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New""> 'I am surprised <b>
that</b> they go out (this) early.' </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></p>
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<span lang="ES">Could the marker <b><i>kun</i></b> also be used to introduce clauses complementing cognition or utterance predicates (<i>I know that</i>;
<i>I said that</i>… etc)?</span></p>
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Thanks!</p>
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<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-bottom:8.0pt; line-height:106%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black; background:white">Rodrigo Hernáiz </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:#1F497D; border:none windowtext 1.0pt; padding:0cm">Lecturer in Languages and Linguistics</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:#1F497D; border:none windowtext 1.0pt; padding:0cm">School of Languages and Applied Linguistics</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:#1F497D; border:none windowtext 1.0pt; padding:0cm">The Open University </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:black"><a href="mailto:rodrigo.hernaiz-gomez@open.ac.uk">rodrigo.hernaiz-gomez@open.ac.uk</a> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
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<b>From: </b><a href="mailto:jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi">Jussi Ylikoski</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>26 September 2020 19:10<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:hernaitz@hotmail.com">tiritiri trauntraun</a>; <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">
LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: From causal to complement markers</p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black">Dear Rodrigo, </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black">If it doesn't "matter how loose these assumptions might be or how restricted to a small number of semantic context or complement-taking predicates", Finnic and Saami
languages of the Uralic family do have multiple-purpose conjunctions, often with the primary meaning 'when', e.g. the temporal conjunction
<i>kun</i> in Finnish. However, although there are more specialized subordinators like the mostly causative
<i>koska</i> 'as; because' and the general complementizer <i>että</i>, many languages like my own idiolect of colloquial Finnish also permit the use of
<i>kun</i> 'when; because; as; <span style="font-variant:small-caps">comp</span>'. Here are the translations of your Hausa examples: </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif; color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black">(1)
<i>Ne pakeni, koska/<b>kun</b> ne pelkäs, että ne pidätetään. </i></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black"> 3PL flee.PST.3 as/<i>kun</i> 3PL fear.PST.3 COMP 3PL arrest.PASS </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black"> '<b>As</b> they are afraid of being arrested, they fled.' </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black">(2)
<i>Mä ihmettelen, että/<b>kun</b> ne lähtee näin aikaisin. </i></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black"> 1SG wonder.1SG COMP/<i>kun</i> 3PL go.3 this early </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:115%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New""> 'I am surprised <b>
that</b> they go out (this) early.' </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span> </p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">(My examples are in colloquial Finnish, as I believe that some local purists would oppose my examples if they were presented as standard Finnish.) </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Unfortunately, I suppose that few people dare to say which way these functions have developed. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Best regards, </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Jussi </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
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<img id="x_Horizontal_x0020_Line_x0020_1" style="width:7.2291in; height:.0208in" width="694" height="2" border="0" data-outlook-trace="F:1|T:1" src="cid:597a68e6-f650-41bb-8bee-e6706e0fb3e8"></p>
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<b><span style="color:black">Frá:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> fyrir hönd tiritiri trauntraun <hernaitz@hotmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> miðvikudagur, 23. september 2020 12:03<br>
<b>Til:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Efni:</b> [Lingtyp] From causal to complement markers</span> </p>
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<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-bottom:8.0pt; line-height:106%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">Dear all, </span></p>
<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-bottom:8.0pt; line-height:106%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">I’m interested in finding examples of languages for which it might be assumed (either tacitly or explicitly) that elements marking complement clauses are directly
derived from markers of causal clauses, as in (1) and (2): </span></p>
<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-bottom:8.0pt; line-height:106%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"> Hausa (Chadic, Afroasiatic). Abdoulaye 2008. </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black" lang="ES">(1) <b>Dà</b> su-kèe tsòoro-n à kaamàa su, sun gudù. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"> <b>as</b> 3p-</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">RI
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">fear-of imp.</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">SBJ
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">arrest 3p 3p.</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">CPL
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">flee </span></p>
<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:8.0pt; margin-left:36.0pt; line-height:106%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"> '<b>As</b> they are afraid of being arrested, they fled.' </span></p>
<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-left:36.0pt; line-height:150%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:150%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">(2) Naa yi màamaakìi
<b>dà</b> su-kèe fìtaa dà wuri. </span></p>
<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-left:36.0pt; line-height:150%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:150%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"> 1s.</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">CPL
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:150%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">do surprise
<b>as</b> 3p-</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">RI
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:150%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">go.out at early </span></p>
<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-left:36.0pt; line-height:150%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:150%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"> 'I am surprised
<b>that</b> they go out early.' </span></p>
<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-left:36.0pt; line-height:150%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:150%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-bottom:8.0pt; line-height:106%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">For Hausa, Abdoulaye assumes that
<i>dà</i> in (2) functions as a complementizer, and that this is a ‘secondary’ extension from a causal source (1). Similar interpretations can be found for Latin (<i>quod</i>,
<i>quia</i>) or for a number of Semitic languages (e.g., Hebrew, Amharic or Akkadian). Schmidtke-Bode (2014) also mentions other possible cases, like Epena Pedee. </span></p>
<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-bottom:8.0pt; line-height:106%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">I’d be very grateful to hear about any other potential cases, no matter how loose these assumptions might be or how restricted to a small number of semantic context
or complement-taking predicates. </span></p>
<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-bottom:8.0pt; line-height:106%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black; background:white">Many thanks! </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-bottom:8.0pt; line-height:106%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black; background:white">Best, </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-bottom:8.0pt; line-height:106%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black; background:white"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p class="x_xmsonormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri", sans-serif;margin-bottom:8.0pt; line-height:106%">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black; background:white">Rodrigo Hernáiz </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; line-height:106%; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:#1F497D; border:none windowtext 1.0pt; padding:0cm">Lecturer in Languages and Linguistics</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:#1F497D; border:none windowtext 1.0pt; padding:0cm">School of Languages and Applied Linguistics</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:#1F497D; border:none windowtext 1.0pt; padding:0cm">The Open University </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:black"><a href="mailto:rodrigo.hernaiz-gomez@open.ac.uk">rodrigo.hernaiz-gomez@open.ac.uk</a> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif; color:#0078D4; background:#EDEBE9"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black"></span></p>
<p style="background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-size:initial; background-repeat:initial; background-attachment:initial; background-origin:initial; background-clip:initial">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:black; background:white"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:8.0pt; line-height:12.85pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">Abdoulaye, M. L. (2008).<i> Origin of relative marking in Hausa</i>. (https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00259490) </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">Schmidtke-Bode, K. (2014). <i>Complement clauses and complementation systems: A cross-linguistic study of grammatical organization</i> (Doctoral dissertation, Thüringer Universitäts-und Landesbibliothek Jena). </span></p>
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