<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Dear Ian,<div>in Russian, sentences like<br><div></div></div></div></div><ol start="2" type="1" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-top:0in"><li style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><i>*Ya v dom</i><u></u><u></u></li></ol><p style="margin:0in 0in 0in 0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">1SG to house.ACC<u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0in 0.5in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">`Intended meaning: I’m going to the house.’</p>are quite normal in the appropriate context. <div>E.g. imagine a dialogue between two people who meet in the street:</div><div><i>- Privet, ty kuda? </i>[hi <a href="http://you.sg" target="_blank">you.sg</a> where]</div><div><i>- Ja na rabotu, a ty?</i> [I on work and
<a href="http://you.sg" target="_blank">you.sg</a>]</div><div><i>- A ja v kino! </i>[and I in cinema]</div><div>- Hi, where are you going?</div><div>- I <am going> to my work, and you?</div><div>- And I <am going> to the cinema.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Timur Maisak</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">пн, 5 окт. 2020 г. в 07:55, JOO, Ian [Student] <<a href="mailto:ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk" target="_blank">ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk</a>>:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Dear all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Thank you for the comments you left regarding my question on verbless construction/non-verbal predicates/ellipsis/any of the many other names it is called.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The general viewpoint seems to be that it is in fact fairly common around the world.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>It seems to me however that we must distinguish the case of
<b>zero copula </b>from other cases of verbless constructions, as some languages allow the two to different degrees.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>For example in Russian (1) is acceptable but (2) is not (correct me if I’m wrong):<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1">
<li style="margin-left:0in"><i><span>Ya student</span></i><span><u></u><u></u></span></li></ol>
<p><span>1SG student<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span>`I am a student.’<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="2" type="1">
<li style="margin-left:0in"><i><span>*Ya v dom</span></i><span><u></u><u></u></span></li></ol>
<p><span>1SG to house.ACC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span>`Intended meaning: I’m going to the house.’<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>So it seems necessary to me that
<b>zero copula </b>should be distinguished from <b>zero verb</b>.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>But as Mark pointed out, a language that allos zero copula is also likely to allow zero verb.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Also, as Siva mentioned, it’s interesting and remains the open question why the article must be elided for the sentence to be more natural (<i>Legs off the table</i> compared to
<i>your legs off the table</i>).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>From Hong Kong,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Ian<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:paolo.ramat@unipv.it" target="_blank">paolo Ramat</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Sunday, September 27, 2020 4:49 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com" target="_blank">Alex Francois</a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk" target="_blank">JOO, Ian [Student]</a>; <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" target="_blank">
LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] NP + PP construction</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1) Ital.<i> Superman alla riscossa ! </i>(could be a head title in a newspaper. Very often journals announce their news in these form).<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2) Ital. <i>Giù le gambe dal tavolo !</i> (imperat.)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Actually, non verbal predication is known in many languages: see above all Kees Hengeveld,
<i>Non verbal predication.</i> De Gruyter. And look in Google at "non-verbal predication" for further literature.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Paolo<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">prof. dr. Paolo Ramat<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Università di Pavia (retired)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Istituto Universitario Studi Superiori (IUSS Pavia) (retired)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Accademia dei Lincei, Socio corrispondente<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">'Academia Europaea'<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">'Societas Linguistica Europaea', Honorary Member<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">piazzetta Arduino 11 - I 27100 Pavia<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">##39 0382 27027<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">347 044 98 44<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Il giorno dom 27 set 2020 alle ore 07:24 Alex Francois <<a href="mailto:alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com" target="_blank">alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com</a>> ha scritto:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">dear Ian,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">> </span><i><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I wonder if there has been any literature on the construction where there is no verb, but only an NP and a PP</span></i><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Interesting question.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">In English, those constructions are particular: they are arguably elliptical in some way, exclamative – or hortative – rather than declarative…<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Yet in many languages, including from the Oceanic (Austronesian) family, a construction {NP + PP} is simply the normal syntax for a declarative statement, where the PP is the predicate itself.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Thus <b>Mwotlap</b> (Oceanic; Banks, Vanuatu) would have this: <br>
</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> (square brackets = limits of the predicate phrase)
</span><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(153,0,0)">(1) <b>
Imam mino [</b></span><b><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:blue">mi </span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(153,0,0)">tēytēybē].</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New""> father my with doctor</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> “My father is/was with the doctor.”<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(153,0,0)">(2) <b>
na-tan̄ nōnōm [</b></span><b><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:blue">lelo</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(153,0,0)"> siok].</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New""> Art-bag your inside canoe</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> “Your bag is in the canoe.”<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Likewise, <b>Araki
</b>(Oceanic; Santo, Vanuatu) says:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(153,0,0)">(3) <b>Sari nene [</b></span><b><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:blue">m̈ar̄a
</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(153,0,0)">m̈aji]</span></b><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(153,0,0)">.</span><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New""> spear this for fish</span><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> “This spear is for fish.” (i.e. it's designed for fishing)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Teanu </span></b><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">(Oceanic ; Temotu, Solomons) would have:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(153,0,0)">(4) <b>Datilu [</b></span><b><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:blue">pe </span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(153,0,0)">Iura]</span></b><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(153,0,0)">.</span><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New""> 3dual from Vanuatu</span><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> “They were from Vanuatu.”<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">These are all prepositional predicates, translated in English as
<i>BE</i> + prep. (is with, is in, is for, were from…)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Their syntax is typical of languages of the "omnipredicative" type (cf. Launey 1994 about Nāhuatl), languages where the predicate slot can be headed by various lexical classes — unlike European
languages, where the predicative function in declarative statements is basically restricted to verbs. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Those languages which, like European languages, restrict predicativity to the class of verbs, need a copula (like a verb BE) to turn non-predicative phrases into a predicate: with > "I
<u>was</u> with them"; happy > "she <u>is</u> happy"; rice > "this <u>is</u> rice"; home > "we
<u>were</u> home". <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">This operation (turning a non-pred phrase into a predicate) is arguably the main function of copulas (cf. Lemaréchal 1989, 1997); this is the
<i>raison d'être</i> of <i>être</i>.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">In omnipredicative languages, words like
<i>with</i>, <i>happy, rice</i> and <i>home</i> would simply head the predicate, making the whole copula operation superfluous. This is why a typical property of omnipredicative languages is to lack a verb Be in the first place.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">NB: in languages where the predicate is clause-initial, you will have the reverse order {<u>PP</u> NP}. Example in Tahitian:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">(5) <b><span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)">[</span><span style="color:blue">Nō</span><span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)"> tō'u fenua] teie mā'a.</span></b></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New""> from my country this food</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> “This food is from my country.”<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Here again, the preposition (<i>nō</i>) is the head of the predicate.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Some references:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Launey</span></b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">, Michel. 1994.
<i>Une grammaire omniprédicative: Essai sur la morphosyntaxe du nahuatl classique</i>. Sciences du Langage, Paris: CNRS.</span><u></u><u></u></li><li class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Lemaréchal</span></b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">, Alain. 1989.
<i>Les parties du discours, Syntaxe et sémantique</i>. Linguistique Nouvelle. Paris: Presses Universitaires de France.</span><u></u><u></u></li><li class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">—— 1997. <i>Zéro(s)</i>. Linguistique Nouvelle. Paris: Presses universitaires de France.</span><u></u><u></u></li><li class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">François</span></b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">, Alexandre. 2005. Diversité des prédicats non verbaux dans quelques langues océaniennes. In Jacques François
& Irmtraud Behr, <i>Les constituants prédicatifs et la diversité des langues</i>. Mémoires de la Société de Linguistique de Paris. Louvain: Peeters. 179-197.</span><u></u><u></u></li><li class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">—— 2017. The economy of word classes in Hiw, Vanuatu: Grammatically flexible, lexically rigid. In Eva van Lier (ed.),
<i>Lexical Flexibility in Oceanic Languages</i>. Special issue of <i>Studies in Language</i>. 41 (2): 294–357.</span><u></u><u></u></li></ul>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">__________<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">I realise that these Oceanic constructions look perfectly parallel to your English examples [<i>Your legs off the table!</i>], and yet the syntactic similarity is only superficial. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">The contrast – whether syntactic, semantic or pragmatic – is worth exploring.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">best<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black">Alex</span><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><img border="0" width="36" height="1" style="width: 0.3697in; height: 0.0104in;" id="m_1830577225761862436m_-4293243544137203361gmail-m_7871502682600309652Horizontal_x0020_Line_x0020_1" src="cid:174f783efafc359af7f1"></span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="line-height:12.4pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,102,102)">Alex François<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="line-height:12.4pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,102,102)"><a href="http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/" target="_blank">LaTTiCe</a> — <a href="http://www.cnrs.fr/index.html" title="ENS" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(51,102,204)">CNRS–</span></a><a href="https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094" title="ENS" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(51,102,204)">ENS</span></a>–<a href="http://www.univ-paris3.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp" title="ENS" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(51,102,204)">Sorbonne
nouvelle</span></a><br>
<a href="https://researchers.anu.edu.au/researchers/francois-a" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(51,102,204)">Australian National University</span></a><br>
<a href="https://cnrs.academia.edu/AlexFran%C3%A7ois" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(51,102,204)">Academia page</span></a> – <a href="http://alex.francois.online.fr/" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(51,102,204)">Personal homepage</span></a></span><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:rgb(51,102,102)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, 25 Sep 2020 at 23:07, JOO, Ian [Student] <<a href="mailto:ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk" target="_blank">ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear all,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I wonder if there has been any literature on the construction where there is no verb, but only an NP and a PP, such as:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(1) Superman to the rescue!<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">(2) Your legs off the table!<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Of course, not only in English, but in any language. I would appreciate your help.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">From Hong Kong,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ian<u></u><u></u></p>
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