<div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif" class="gmail_default"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">dear all,<br></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default"><br></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Fascinating discussion. Since Pacific languages have been mentioned, I thought I'd send a note on cardinal systems in <b>Oceanic</b> languages </font><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">— a family of about 500 languages, part of the larger Austronesian phylum.</span></div><div class="gmail_default"><br></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">tl;dr: </font><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"> Oceanic languages do <b>not</b> show the connection that has been reported from various families in this thread, between 'left'/'right' and sun-based cardinal directions.<br></font></div><div class="gmail_default">________</div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><i>Oceanic systems of absolute directions</i></span><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">The Proto-Oceanic system is the ancestor of the modern systems still used in the languages of Island Melanesia (eastern PNG, Solomon Islands, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, Fiji), as well as Micronesia and Polynesia. While there are local variations, all Oceanic languages share common principles about space orientation.</font><br><br><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">'Left' and 'right' are usually just nouns referring to sides of the human body. They are hardly ever projected into space to encode spatial relations.</font><br><br><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Instead, all spatial directions, whatever the distance, use a geocentric system based on an absolute Frame of reference (Levinson 1996, Palmer 2002). It is thus common to hear sentences like “</font><font face="georgia, serif"><i>Can you sit further southeast?</i>”</font><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"> or “</font><i><font face="georgia, serif">My plate is the one on the seaward side.</font></i><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">” (even if the sea can't be seen)</font><br><br><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">The cardinal system of Oceanic languages features not two, but <b>one cardinal axis</b>, oriented Northwest — Southeast. </font><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">This cardinal axis is almost always lexified Down [“NW”] – Up [“SE”].</font><br><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">While it was sometimes hypothesized this axis had to do with the direction of the sun (with “East” = “up”?), there is now consensus that the cardinal axis was in fact based on the <b>wind</b>, so the lexical contrast is effectively Down[wind] vs. Up[wind].</font><br><br><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">More precisely, the cardinal axis is based on the dominant trade winds, which (south of the equator) blow from Southeast. These were the main winds followed by Austronesian “Lapita” sailing navigators as they colonized the western half of the Pacific, initially between 1400 and 800 BC. (The famous “Polynesian navigators”, who colonized the rest of the Pacific many centuries later, are their descendants.) </font></div><div class="gmail_default"><br><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">As it happens, most of the exploration and colonization of the Pacific took place by sailing "up", that is, southeast – from the Bismarck archipelago (PNG) towards Fiji and Samoa, etc.</font><br><br><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">By comparing systems from various Oceanic subgroups (cf. Senft ed. 1997), in 2004 I proposed to reconstruct the space system of POc as follows:</font><br><ul><li><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b>Directions at sea</b> employed a single cardinal axis, oriented NW–SE, <br>and lexified *<i>sake </i>'up' / *<i>sipo </i>'down' (resp. for 'upwind' / 'downhill')</font></li><li><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><b>Directions on land</b> used a main axis contrasting 'inland' / 'seawards', <br>which could also be encoded *<i>sake </i>'up' / *<i>sipo</i> 'down' (this time standing for 'up-' / 'down-hill', or 'up-' / 'down-river'). <br>Orthogonal to it was a neutral, symmetrical axis glossed 'across' (cf. Ozanne-Rivierre 1997, Palmer 2002). </font></li></ul><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;text-align:center"> <br></div><div style="text-align:center"><img src="cid:ii_kj5v8mos3" alt="image.png" width="424" height="176" style="margin-right: 0px;"></div>
</div><div><br></div><div>________<br></div><div><i><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">About the system's diversification in modern Oceanic languages<br></span></i></div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default"><br></div><div class="gmail_default">With such a system as their source, many languages couldn't resist the temptation of replacing the ambiguous 'across' axis with the (usefully asymmetrical) cardinal axis on land too.That cardinal axis (initially oriented NW–SE), even though it's etymologically based on trade winds, commonly ended up adapted to the shape of each island, so as to run parallel to the shoreline. This would allow the cardinal axis to be used orthogonally to the 'uphill / downhill' axis, so as to form a neat system based on four quadrants. <font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br></font></div></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><br></div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">As a result, superficial observation shows a cardinal axis running <b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"></span>W–E</b> in some Oceanic lgs, but <b><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"></span>N–S</b> in other languages, depending on the topography of each particular island. <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Yet </span>using appropriate tests, it is generally possible to retrieve the underlying, emic axis based on the navigational scale; and this generally comes back to a NW–SE axis.<span class="gmail_default" style=""> </span>In other terms, a West-East axis lexified "down–up" in a modern Oceanic language is not based on the sun, but results from a 45° rotation of the wind-based NW–SE axis.</font></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default"><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">In most modern Oceanic languages, on land you effectively use four different directionals. In some specific locations, it may superficially resemble a cardinal system N/W/S/E, but underlyingly it is really a system combining a fixed cardinal axis ('upwind = SE' + 'downwind = NW') with a topographic axis ('uphill' + 'downhill') whose absolute orientation depends on one's location on an island. </font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Modern speakers acquire their system on land, and are usually unaware of the etymological connection with winds. They just learn that 'up' and 'down' are used on the horizontal plane in an arbitrary way.<br></font></div></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">In most languages, the lexical clash between two orthogonal 'up/down' axes was resolved by relexifying the land axis, and this is where modern languages show the most diversity. Thus in Mwotlap (N. Vanuatu), the land-sea axis was relexified to 'in'/'out':</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><div style="text-align:center"><img src="cid:ii_kj5ljha62" alt="image.png" style="margin-right:0px" width="389" height="166"><br></div><div style="text-align:left"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="text-align:left"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">But the directional system can be very different even in very close languages, e.g. Mwotlap's neighbour Mwerlap (François 2015):</font><br></div><div style="text-align:center"><br></div><div style="text-align:center"><img src="cid:ii_kj5llok93" alt="image.png" style="margin-right:0px" width="389" height="160"><br></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">In other places, especially in Polynesia (see Lavondès 1983, Cablitz 2006 for Marquesan), the up/down directionals were relexified using nouns such as 'sea'/'lagoon' or 'bush'. </font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">These examples provide a glimpse of how the directional system of Proto-Oceanic, initially made of two simple up–down axes (François 2004, Ross 2004), was able to diversify into many different, and sometimes quite complex, modern systems of spatial orientation. </font></div></div><div class="gmail_default"><br></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">_____________</font><br><i><font face="verdana, sans-serif">References<br></font></i></div><div class="gmail_default"><ul><li><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif">Cablitz, Gabriele H. 2006. <i>Marquesan: A grammar of space</i>. New York: Mouton de Gruyter.</font></li><li><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif">François, Alexandre. 2003. <a href="http://alex.francois.online.fr/data/AlexFrancois_SpaceDirectionalsMwotlap_OL2003.pdf" target="_blank">Of men, hills and winds: Space directionals in Mwotlap</a>. <i>Oceanic Linguistics</i> 42(2). 407–437. </font></li><li><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif">Francois, Alexandre. 2004. <a href="http://alex.francois.online.fr/AFpub_articles_e.htm#12" target="_blank">Reconstructing the geocentric system of Proto Oceanic</a>. <i>Oceanic Linguistics</i> 43(1). 1–31.</font></li><li><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif">François, Alexandre. 2015. <a href="http://alex.francois.online.fr/data/AlexFrancois_2015_North-Vanuatu-space-directionals.pdf" target="_blank">The ins and outs of “up” and “down”: Disentangling the nine geocentric space systems of Torres and Banks languages</a>. In Alexandre François, Sébastien Lacrampe, Michael Franjieh & Stefan Schnell (eds.), <i>The languages of Vanuatu: Unity and diversity</i> (Studies in the Languages of Island Melanesia 5), 137–195. Canberra: Asia-Pacific Linguistics.</font></li><li><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif">Lavondès, Henri. 1983. Le vocabulaire marquisien de l’orientation dans l’espace. <i>L’Ethnographie</i> 79 (1). 35–42.</font></li><li><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif">Levinson, Stephen. 1996. Frames of reference and Molyneux’s question: Crosslinguistic evidence. In Paul Bloom, Mary Peterson, Lynn Nadel & Merrill Garrett (eds.), <i>Language and space</i>, 109–170. Cambridge, MA: The MIT Press.</font></li><li><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif">Ozanne-Rivierre, Françoise. 1997. Spatial references in New Caledonian languages. In Gunter Senft (ed.), 84–100.</font></li><li><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif">Palmer, Bill. 2002. Absolute spatial reference and the grammaticalisation of perceptually salient phenomena. In Giovanni Bennardo (ed.), <i>Representing space in Oceania: Culture in language in mind</i> (Pacific Linguistics), vol. 523, 107–157. Canberra: Australian National University.</font></li><li><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif">Ross, Malcolm. 2003. Talking about space: terms of location and direction. In Malcolm Ross, Andrew Pawley & Meredith Osmond (eds.), <i><a href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt24hfkc" target="_blank">The lexicon of Proto Oceanic: The physical environment</a> </i>(Pacific Linguistics), vol. 2, 229–294. Canberra: Australian National University.</font></li><li><font face="arial narrow, sans-serif">Senft, Gunter (ed.). 1997. <i>Referring to space: Studies in Austronesian and Papuan languages</i> (Oxford Studies in Anthropological Linguistics). Oxford: Oxford University Press.</font></li></ul></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">_______</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Best wishes for the holiday season,</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">Alex</font></div><div class="gmail_default"></div></div><div><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div 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style="background-color:transparent;background-image:none;background-repeat:repeat;border-bottom-color:rgb(32,33,36);border-bottom-style:none;border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-color:rgb(32,33,36);border-left-style:none;border-left-width:0px;border-right-color:rgb(32,33,36);border-right-style:none;border-right-width:0px;border-top-color:rgb(32,33,36);border-top-style:none;border-top-width:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13.33px;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:100%;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:400;height:170.88px;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:19.99px;outline-color:transparent;outline-style:none;outline-width:0px;overflow:visible;overflow-y:visible;width:445.96px" dir="ltr"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.33px;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><hr style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:13.33px;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" width="70" size="1" noshade align="left"><div><p style="font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-serif"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(69,129,142)">Alex François</span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></font></p><p style="text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1"><span style="text-decoration:none"><a style="text-decoration:none" href="http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/" rel="noopener" target="_blank">LaTTiCe</a> — <a title="ENS" style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="http://www.cnrs.fr/index.html" rel="noopener" target="_blank">CNRS–</a><a title="ENS" style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094" rel="noopener" target="_blank">ENS</a>–<a title="ENS" style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="http://www.univ-paris3.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Sorbonne nouvelle</a><br></span><a style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="https://researchers.anu.edu.au/researchers/francois-a" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Australian National University<br></a><span style="text-decoration:none"></span><span style="text-decoration:none"><a style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="https://www.ae-info.org/ae/Member/François_Alexandre" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Academia Europaea</a> – </span></font></span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1"><span style="text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1"><span style="text-decoration:none"><a style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="https://cnrs.academia.edu/AlexFran%C3%A7ois" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Academia.edu</a><br> </span><span style="text-decoration:none"></span></font></span></span><span style="text-decoration:none"><a style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="http://alex.francois.online.fr/" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Personal homepage</a></span></font></span></p><p></p><hr style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif" size="1"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 9:37 AM Johanna Mattissen <<a href="mailto:Johanna.Mattissen@uni-koeln.de" target="_blank">Johanna.Mattissen@uni-koeln.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">Dear all,</div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><blockquote type="cite"><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"></span>It would be interesting to know whether the relationship between 'back' and 'north' is mainly restricted to languages spoken in the far north of the globe.</i></blockquote>Various orientation systems have been described by the Nijmegen project group and Ozanne-Rivierre and where orientation is with respect to landmarks like mountains and rivers or to winds, cardinal directions are seen from the respective viewpoint. In Hupa, North and downstream are the same direction.<br></div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">West Greenlanders face the sea for their orientation system with the mountains in their back, so North and right are the same direction (cf. demonstrative system).<br></div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">As for Mainland NE Asia directions may be oriented at and/or calqued from China as the dominant power of the region.</div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">The Nivkh (Lower Amur and Sakhalin island) have <i>ari </i>'north wind' and j-ari-d ~ <font size="+1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12pt">jəri-d’</span></font> 'follow s.o./<a href="http://s.th/" target="_blank">s.th</a>.' besides 'side wind' and 'onshore (south) wind' (otherwise the orientation system is based on the Amur river and the mountains or the sea).<br></div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">Best,</div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)">Johanna</div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br></div></div></blockquote><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 08:33, Jonathon Lum <<a href="mailto:lum.jonathon@gmail.com" target="_blank">lum.jonathon@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear Ian (and all),<div><br></div><div>A highly relevant paper on this topic (though not specifically on Northeast Asia) is:</div><div><br></div><div><b>Brown, Cecil H. (1983). 'Where do cardinal direction terms come from?'. <i>Anthropological Linguistics. </i>Vol. 25 (2). Pp. 121-161.</b></div><div><b><br></b></div><div>It appears that where cardinal direction terms are related to terms for 'front', 'behind', 'left' or 'right' at all, the most common situation involves an eastward orientation, i.e. 'east' corresponds with 'front', or 'west' with 'behind', or 'north' with 'left', or 'south' with 'right', or more than one of these correspondences. This is the kind of system described by various others in the thread, and appears to relate to the salience and cultural significance of the rising sun. However, other canonical postures are possible, including the one you describe for Mainland Northeast Asia, but also others (e.g. Hawaiian apparently has a right/north and left/south association). It would be interesting to know whether the relationship between 'back' and 'north' is mainly restricted to languages spoken in the far north of the globe.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Jonathon</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 11:55, Siva Kalyan <<a href="mailto:sivakalyan.princeton@gmail.com" target="_blank">sivakalyan.princeton@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Sanskrit likewise has <i>dakṣiṇa</i><span style="font-style:normal"> (> "Deccan [plateau]"), which means both "right" and "south". And I just learned that </span><i>teṉ</i><span style="font-style:normal"> in Tamil has the same polysemy. The terms for "north" do not mean "left" in either of these languages, though.</span><div><br></div><div>Siva<br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 25 Dec 2020, at 9:18 pm, David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><p>Dear Ian (and all),</p><p>In the Middle East, forward/backwards maps on to the cardinal points at a 90º rotation to what you describe for NE Asia. In (poetic) Hebrew, E is 'forward', while in Arabic, N is 'left', while 'Yemen' is, etymologically, 'right' — in all three cases, you're facing east.</p><p>One might speculate that both systems are sun-oriented, the Middle-Eastern system towards the highly-valued rising sun, and the NE Asian system towards the location of the sun at midday.</p><p>David</p><p><br></p><div><br></div><div>On 25/12/2020 08:29, JOO, Ian [Student] wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div name="messageBodySection"><div dir="auto">Dear typologists,<br><br>I am currently working on a doctoral project focusing on the areality of Mainland Northeast Asia (Korea, Mongolia, Northeast China, but <b>not</b> Japan, Russian Far East, or Sout<span>hern/Western China).</span><br>One of the interesting possible areal features of MNEA languages (Tuvan, Manchu, Korean, Mandarin, and Mongolian) that I’ve found is that these five languages, except Mandarin, can express “North” with the word meaning “rear; back; behind”. Please see the map:<br><img height="auto"><br><br>(Note that, in Mandarin, <i>bei</i> 北 `North’ and <i>bei </i>背 `back; backside’ differ only in tone, and are etymologically related)<br>I’m curious if this polysemy exists in other areas as well, and if so, what would be the motivation? (Historical? Cultural? Religious? Cognitive? Climatic?)</div></div><div name="messageSignatureSection"><br>Regards,<div dir="auto">Ian</div></div><img alt="" src="https://www.polyu.edu.hk/emaildisclaimer/PolyU_Email_Signature.jpg"><br><fieldset></fieldset><pre>_______________________________________________
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