<html><head></head><body><div class="ydp1259c2a4yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Thanks, Johanna. Indeed, I think that Manchuria is a perfectly valid term, when defined geographically. Manchukuo was a political concept and covered only a part of historical and geographical Manchuria. In my terminology Greater Manchuria, geographically understood, comprises both the continental part of the region (basically, the Liao and Sungari-Amur basins, including the sources of the Amur in eastern Mongolia) and its insular and peninsular extensions (Korea, Japan, Sakhalin). </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">The term "Northeast Asia" is problematic since it is taken from economic geography and tends to omit the Russian possessions at the Pacific which are, geographically speaking, Northeast Asia par excellence. Also, "Northeast" (Dongbei 東北) is today a politically biased concept which the Chinese government uses for the parts of Manchuria it controls in order to falsify history, making it look as if Manchuria was a part of historical "China", which it is not. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Basically, Manchuria and Mongolia are separate entities, just like China, and it appears difficult to coin a term that would cover them as a single entity. In prewar times, but mainly for reasons of political convenience, the Japanese used the term Manmou (滿蒙) 'Manchuria-Mongolia', but it did not include Korea (Chousen 朝鮮). I do not see any good alternative to "Greater Manchuria" if you want to define a region that would comprise both continental Manchuria, (parts of) Mongolia, and Korea, but exclude Siberia (proper) and, if you so wish, Japan. - jj </div><div><br></div><div class="ydp1259c2a4signature"><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div align="left"><strong><font color="#ff4040">Prof. emer. Dr. J. A. Janhunen </font></strong></div><div align="left"><strong><font color="#ff4040">Linguae et Culturae Asiae Maioris </font></strong></div><div align="left"><span style="color:rgb(255, 64, 64);font-weight:bold;">Языки и культуры Восточной Азии</span></div><div align="left"><br></div><div align="left"><span style="color:rgb(255, 64, 64);font-weight:bold;">赫爾辛基大學東亞語言文化名譽教授</span></div><div align="left"><font color="#ff4040"><span><b>中國內蒙古大學名譽教授</b></span></font></div></div></div></div><div id="ydpfb5309bdyahoo_quoted_0199114436" class="ydpfb5309bdyahoo_quoted"><div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
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<div dir="ltr"><b>От:</b> "Bohnemeyer, Juergen" <jb77@buffalo.edu><br>
<b>Дата:</b> 4 января 2021 г. в 00:45:17 GMT+2<br>
<b>Кому:</b> Johanna Nichols <johanna@berkeley.edu><br>
<b>Копия:</b> LINGTYP <LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Тема:</b> <b>Ответ: [Lingtyp] New name for "Mainland Northeast Asia"</b><br>
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<div dir="ltr"><span>“Manchuria” strikes me politically/historically fraught due to its association with Manchukuo. But, I’m about as far from being an expert on this region as a typologist can be, so what do I know! — Best — Juergen</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>On Jan 3, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Johanna Nichols <johanna@berkeley.edu> wrote:</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Janhunen 1996 uses the term Manchuria for this area and covers its ethnohistory and linguistic history so comprehensively that I consider it a precedent for using that term.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Janhunen, Juha. Manchuria: An ethnic history. Helsinki: Suomalais-Ugrilainen Seura, 1996.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Johanna</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 12:11 PM Dan I. SLOBIN <slobin@berkeley.edu> wrote:</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>"Inner" and "outer" convey an implicit hierarchy: some are in and some are out; some are central and some are peripheral.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>I suggest a simple, objective solution, avoiding the repetition of names of compass directions, and avoiding what may</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>be seen as value judgments: Boreal Northeast Asia and Austral Southeast Asia -- i.e., North and South, using Latin terms.
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>I don't think these terms are opaque: "Boreal" will, for some people, evoke "Aurora Borealis," the Northern Lights;
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>"Austral" will evoke southerly geography, as in Austronesia and Australia.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Dan Slobin</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 3:28 AM JOO, Ian [Student] <ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk> wrote:</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear all,</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>(I’m sorry if no one cares, but just for the update)</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Although no one suggested any alternatives, I gave it a thought and changed the terms “Mainland Northeast Asia” to “Inner Northeast Asia” (as opposed to “Outer Northeast Asia”, i. e. the rest of Northeast Asia).</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Below is a visualized map of Inner and Outher Northeast Asia.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span><Attachment.tiff></span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>From Hong Kong,</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Ian</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>On 31 Dec 2020, 6:13 PM +0800, JOO, Ian [Student] <ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk>, wrote:</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Dear all,</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>In my doctoral research, I refer to the lingistic area consisting of Korea, Mongolia, and Northeast China (but not Japan or Russian Far East) as "Mainland Northeast Asia."</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>But this name is problematic, since Siberia is just as continental (part of "mainland") as well, and I don't intend to include Siberia.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Because of this, I have been thinking of a better name for this area.
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>The best one I can think of is Astragalia, from the name of the herb astragalus, which is native to Korea, Northeast China, Mongolia, and Southern Siberia.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>The downside of this fancy name is that, upon hearing it, whoever not familiar with herbalism will have no idea where it points to, without further explanation.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Are there any other name candidates you can think of? If so, I would welcome all suggestions.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>From Hong Kong,</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Ian</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Disclaimer:</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and notify the sender and The Hong
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Disclaimer:</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and notify the sender and The Hong
Kong Polytechnic University (the University) immediately. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>The University specifically denies any responsibility for the accuracy or quality of information obtained through University E-mail Facilities. Any views and opinions expressed are only those of the author(s) and do not necessarily
represent those of the University and the University accepts no liability whatsoever for any losses or damages incurred or caused to any party as a result of the use of such information.</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Lingtyp mailing list</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>-- </span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> </span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Dan I. Slobin</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>Professor Emeritus of Psychology and Linguistics</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>University of California, Berkeley</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>email: slobin@berkeley.edu</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>https://danslobin.academia.edu/</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>address: 2323 Rose St., Berkeley, CA 94708</span><br>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>I acknowledge that the UC-Berkeley campus is on the traditional,
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>ancestral, and unceded land of the Ohlone people. </span>
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<blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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<span></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>-- </span><br>
<span>Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)</span><br>
<span>Professor, Department of Linguistics</span><br>
<span>University at Buffalo </span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus</span><br>
<span>Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 </span><br>
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<span></span><br>
<span>Office hours will be held by Zoom. Email me to schedule a call at any time. I will in addition hold Tu/Th 4-5pm open specifically for remote office hours.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
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