<div dir="ltr">Yahgan (genetic isolate, Tierra del Fuego) has proclitic we: (colon stands for tenseness of preceding vowel) for 'can, will, should, must, etc.', and suffix -u:pai for 'towards' (also limit 'up to, in the direction of' etc.). I don't know of a temporal usage here, but I don't think it's impossible. It IS possible (but I hadn't considered it until reading your post) that we: and -u:pai are actually partially cognate (there was an alternation between /w/ and /p/ in the language before the period of European contact, based on internal reconstruction). <div><br></div><div>On the other hand there is a negative question word da:rara 'why/how/did (etc.) not?', while suffix -da:ra means 'through, during, while, whilst' (mostly temporally) with verbs, but 'all, every' with nouns.<br><div><br></div><div>Jess Tauber</div><div><br></div></div></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
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</table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 9:23 AM Timur Maisak <<a href="mailto:timur.maisak@gmail.com">timur.maisak@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear Ellen,<div>another common source for both meanings can be "arrive at, reach": the World Lexicon of Grammaticalization by Kuteva et al. (2019: 63-64) contains two relevant grammaticalization paths, namely</div><div><b>arrive</b> (‘arrive at’, ‘reach’) > (2) <b>pi-possibility (Ability)</b> - with examples from Koranko, Mandarin Chinese<br></div><div>and</div><div><b>arrive </b>(‘arrive at’, ‘reach’) > (4) <b>until (temporal)</b> - with examples from Sinitic languages, also Khmer, Zande, Bulu, Kikuyu, Tswana<br></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Timur Maisak</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">вт, 5 янв. 2021 г. в 15:53, David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><span dir="auto"><br>
</span></p>
<p>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Dear Ellen.<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>A
possible diachronic case of what you'r</span><span>e
looking for</span><span><span></span>
is provided by the biconsonantal Semitic root
morpheme <i>k-l</i>.<span> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Appended
below is a passage from an encyclopaedia article on quantifiers
about the
realizations and functions of <i>k-l</i> in Hebrew.<span> </span>Among these functions you
can find 'be able to'
and 'ability'.<span> </span>As for
'until', you can
express that periphrastically by means of the <i>k-l-y</i> root
meaning
'finish', though it's not the most common way of expressing that
meaning.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>So
Hebrew gives you the coexpression you're looking for, with the
provisos that the
relationship between the two is </span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">indirect,
being mediated by several additional
functions, and also </span>synchronically opaqu</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">e, r</span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">e</span>fl</span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">e</span>cting</span>
word-formation proc</span><span><span>ess</span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">es
som</span></span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">e
of which may dat</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">e
back to proto-S</span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">emitic or </span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span>ev</span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">en </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">earli</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span>er</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span>.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Sp</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">e</span></span></span>culating</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">, the
rang</span><span><span><span>e of functions of S</span></span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">emitic</span></span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> <i>k-l
</i>might b</span><span><span><span><span>e</span></span></span> consist</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">e</span></span></span>nt
with</span><span><span><span><span> paths of grammaticalization</span></span></span>
som</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span>ewhat lik</span></span></span></span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span>e</span></span></span></span></span></span>
th</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span>e following, which, in conjunction,
would </span></span></span>yield can/until coexpr</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">e</span></span></span>ssion:<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>HAVE MASTERY OVER > FINISH > UNTIL</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>HAVE MASTERY OVER > CAN<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>*****</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>"Consider,
for example, the Modern Hebrew universal quantifier <i>kol</i> 'all'.<span> </span>Synchronically
it
is clearly monomorphemic; however, in its diachronic origins, it
reflects an
ancient biconsonantal root morpheme <i>k-l</i>.<span> </span>Such roots form the basis
of much of the
Afroasiatic lexicon; however, in the Semitic family, the
biconsonantal roots
are often expanded into tri-consonantal ones, by the addition of
a third root
consonant.<span> </span>Resulting
from this
historical process, and also from the synchronic processes of
word formation in
Modern Hebrew, is a large family of words, all containing
reflexes of the
original root <i>k-l </i>morpheme,
and all
connected via a semantic network based on the related concepts
of ability,
containment, consumption, exhaustiveness, and the like.<span> </span>Some members of this family
include verbal
forms such as <i>yaxal</i>
'be able to'
(from root <i>y-k-l</i>); <i>axal</i> 'eat', <i>ʔikel</i> 'consume' (<i>ʔ-k-l</i>); <i>ʕikel</i> 'digest' (<i>ʕ-k-l</i>); <i>kala</i>
'end',
'cease to exist'; <i>kila</i>
'finish',
'exterminate' (<i>k-l-y</i>);
<i>kala</i> 'imprison' (<i>k-l-ʔ</i>); <i>kal</i>
'measure', <i>hexil</i>
'contain' (<i>k-w-l</i>); <i>kiyel</i>
'calibrate'
(<i>k-y-l</i>); <i>kalal</i> 'include', <i>hixlil</i>
'generalize', <i>šixlel</i>
'improve' (<i>k-l-l</i>); and
<i>kilkel</i> 'support', 'provide for' (<i>k-l-k-l</i>); and also related nominal forms such as <i>oxel</i> 'food'; <i>kli</i> 'utensil'; <i>kila</i> 'bed
curtain'; <i>meyxal</i>
'container'; <i>heyxal</i>
'palace'; <i>mixlala</i> 'college'; <i>makolet</i>
'grocery store'; <i>kele</i>
'jail'; <i>klal</i> 'rule';
<i>kilayon</i> 'extermination'; <i>yexolet</i>
'ability'; <i>kalkala</i>
'economy' and many
others.<span> </span>(Note that in
many of the above
examples, <i>k</i> is
reflected by its
allophone <i>x</i>.)"</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-US">Gil, David (2001)
"Quantifiers", in M. Haspelmath, E. König, W. Oesterreicher and
W.
Raible eds., <i>Language
Typology and
Linguistic Universals, An International Handbook</i>, Volume
2, Walter de
Gruyter, Berlin, 1275-1294.</span></p>
<p>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 05/01/2021 14:11, Smith-Dennis,
Ellen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Happy New Year all!</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Could you help? <br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span dir="auto"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<span dir="auto">I'm looking for languages where the word
for 'able, can' is polysemous/homophonous with 'until, up to,
for (X amount of time)'. This is the case in Papapana
(Austronesian, Papua New Guinea) and Tok Pisin (pidgin/creole,
PNG) so I'm especially (but not only!) interested in languages
of the Pacific region.
<br>
</span></div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
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thanks in advance,<br>
</span></font></div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="2" face="Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;text-transform:none">Ellen
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<div style="text-indent:0px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="2" face="Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;text-transform:none"><font size="3" face="Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" color="black"><span style="font-size:12pt"><font face="Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;font-weight:normal"><a href="mailto:E.Smith-Dennis@warwick.ac.uk" target="_blank">E.Smith-Dennis@warwick.ac.uk</a></span></font></font></span></font><br>
</span></font></div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="2" face="Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;text-transform:none"><b><br>
</b></span></font></div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="2" face="Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;text-transform:none"><b>Dr. Ellen
Smith-Dennis, FHEA</b></span></font></div>
<div style="text-indent:0px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><font size="2" face="Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:16px;font-weight:normal;text-transform:none">Assistant Professor</span></font></div>
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<pre cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
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Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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