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According to my favourite definition of "passive construction",
these Mandarin examples are (apparently) not passive constructions:<br>
<br>
<font size="-1">"A passive voice construction is a verb-coded
valency construction (i) whose sister valency construction is
transitive and not verb-coded, and (ii) which has an S-argument
corresponding to the transitive P, and (iii) which has a
suppressed or oblique-flagged argument corresponding to the
transitive A".</font><br>
<br>
According to this definition, a passive construction "marks both the
agent and the verb" (unless the agent is suppressed or otherwise
absent). But Ian Joo's question was probably about languages where
the SAME marker can occur on the verb and on the oblique agent. This
would be very unusual, because passive voice markers are not
expected to be similar to an oblique agent flag.<br>
<br>
Now my question is: Are these Mandarin (and Shanghainese)
BEI/GEI-constructions passives? They have traditionally been called
passives, but since the BEI element is obligatory, while the agent
can be omitted (<i>Zhangsan bei (Lisi) da le</i> 'Zhangsan was hit
(by Lisi)'), it cannot be a preposition or case prefix. At least
that would seem to follow from the definition of "affix/adposition".
So I think this construction doesn't fall under a rigorous
definition of "passive construction". (Rather, it is a sui generis
construction.)<br>
<br>
Some authors might say that it is a "noncanonical passive" (cf.
Legate, Julie Anne. 2021. Noncanonical passives: A typology of
voices in an impoverished Universal Grammar. <i>Annual Review of
Linguistics</i> 7(1). doi:<a
href="https://doi.org/10.1146/annurev-linguistics-031920-114459">10.1146/annurev-linguistics-031920-114459</a>),
but there does not seem to be a clear limit to this vague notion (is
every topicalization construction a noncanonical passive?). I do not
know of a fully explicit definition of "passive construction" that
clearly includes the Mandarin BEI constructions.<br>
<span class="Z3988"
title="url_ver=Z39.88-2004&ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fzotero.org%3A2&rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1146%2Fannurev-linguistics-031920-114459&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=Noncanonical%20passives%3A%20A%20typology%20of%20voices%20in%20an%20impoverished%20Universal%20Grammar&rft.jtitle=Annual%20Review%20of%20Linguistics&rft.volume=7&rft.issue=1&rft.aufirst=Julie%20Anne&rft.aulast=Legate&rft.au=Julie%20Anne%20Legate&rft.date=2021"></span><br>
Best wishes,<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 28.02.21 um 19:46 schrieb bingfu Lu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1917965191.1300611.1614537985993@mail.yahoo.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="ydp5354c40fyahoo-style-wrap" style="font-size: 16px;
font-family: courier new, courier, monaco, monospace,
sans-serif;">
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-family: courier
new, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">A better example
in Mandarin may be:</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="">
<div style="font-family: courier new, courier, monaco,
monospace, sans-serif;"><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42);
font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;">Zhangsan bei-Lisi gei-da-le.</span><br
style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">
<span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Zhangsan PASS-Lisi
PASS-hit-PRF</span><br style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42);
font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;">
<span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">`Zhangsan was hit by
Lisi.'</span></div>
<div style="font-family: courier new, courier, monaco,
monospace, sans-serif;"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-family: courier
new, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">'bei' is
etymologically related to 'suffer' while‘给’ to 'give'.</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-family: courier
new, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-family: courier
new, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">In fact, </div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-family: courier
new, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;"><span><span
style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica
Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">Zhangsan
bei-(Lisi) da-le.</span></span><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style=""><font
face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
color="#26282a">can also change to</font></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style=""><font
face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
color="#26282a"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42);
font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">Zhangsan gei-(Lisi）
da-le.</span></span><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style=""><font
face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
color="#26282a"><span><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42);
font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br>
</span></span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style=""><font
face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
color="#26282a">Furthermore, in Shanghainese, the PASS is
a morpheme homophonic to the morpheme for 'give'.</font></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style=""><font
face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
color="#26282a"><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="">regards,<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-family: courier
new, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">Bingfu Lu</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false" style="font-family: courier
new, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">Beijing
Language University</div>
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: courier new, courier, monaco,
monospace, sans-serif;"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="ydp9b85d7ebyahoo_quoted_4775567649"
class="ydp9b85d7ebyahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> On Sunday, February 28, 2021, 10:26:36 PM GMT+8, JOO,
Ian [Student] <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk"><ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk></a> wrote: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id="ydp9b85d7ebyiv9747170334">
<div>
<div>
<div>Dear typologists,<br>
<br>
I wonder if you are aware of any language whose
passive construction marks both the agent and the
verb.<br>
For example, in Mandarin, the agent receives the
passive marker <em>bei.</em><br>
<br>
(1) Zhangsan bei-Lisi da-le.<br>
Zhangsan PASS-Lisi hit-PRF<br>
`Zhangsan was hit by Lisi.'<br>
<br>
When the agent is omitted, the verb receives <em>bei</em>.<br>
<br>
(2) Zhangsan bei-da-le.<br>
Zhangsan PASS-hit-PRF<br>
`Zhangsan was hit.'<br>
<br>
But, in some occasions, both the agent and the verb
receive <em>bei</em>:<br>
<br>
(3) Zhangsan bei-Lisi bei-da-le.<br>
Zhangsan PASS-Lisi PASS-hit-PRF<br>
`Zhangsan was hit by Lisi.'<br>
<br>
Are you aware of any other language where a
construction like (3) is possible?<br>
The only one I am aware of at the moment is
Vietnamese.<br>
I would greatly appreciate any help.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
Regards,
<div>Ian</div>
</div>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
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