<html><head></head><body><div class="ydp8aacd807yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Dear Colleagues:</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> The function word <i>bei4</i> is viewed as a particle (for the verb) in some cases and as a preposition in others in Chinese linguistics. It is a unique element even as a member of the preposition inventory. That is due to its unique grammaticalization pathway. Let me say a few words to explain it.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> As Chao Li says, <i>bei4</i> originally was a verb denoting 'to suffer'. It can take either a noun (such as pain, insult) or a verb as its object, and the verbal object underwent no change in its verbal form. When <i>bei4</i> takes a verbal argument in Classic Chinese, the argument can be optionally modified by an agent noun, thus, we have two forms of such 'suffering construction':</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> (1) Jiang4 bei4 sha1.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> general suffer kill 'The general suffered killing = The general was killed'</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> (2) Jiang4 bei4 wang2 sha1.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> general suffer king kill '<span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">The general suffered the King's killing = The general was killed by the King'</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">Later, according to some criteria, the above constructions underwent grammaticalization. '<i>Bei4</i>' in (1) was reanalyzed as a passive particle (marker) on the verb, while '<i>bei4</i>' in (2) was reanalyzed as a preposition, with the possessive agent noun reanalyzed as an oblique agent. This is a unique pathway among Chinese prepositions because most prepositions in Chinese came from verbs occurring in serial verb constructions. </span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> </span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> (1) is the source of the so-called short passive sentence in Mandarin while (2) is the source of the so-called long passive sentence.</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"> For the details regarding the grammaticalization of <i>bei4</i>, see <span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">Zhang, <span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">Hongming 1994, The grammaticalization of <i>bei</i> in Chinese, </span></span> in <i>Chinese Languages and Linguistics 2</i>, ed. by Jen-Kuei Li, Academia Sinica, Taipei.</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> Danqing</span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: lucida console, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br></span></span></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
</div><div id="ydp84b9ea36yahoo_quoted_7275995572" class="ydp84b9ea36yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div>
On Monday, March 22, 2021, 1:32:25 AM GMT+8, Chao Li <chao.li@aya.yale.edu> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119"><div><div dir="ltr"><p class="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:New serif;">Dear Martin,</span></p>
<p class="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:New serif;"> </span></p>
<p class="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:New serif;">It perhaps depends
on what you mean by “verb-coded”. For example, in what sense is the English
passive construction verb-coded? In a Mandarin sentence like (1), the meaning
is passive and crucially it is coded with the passive morpheme <i>bèi</i>,
which historically could be used as a verb that means “to suffer”. The single
argument in (1) can also correspond to the Patient argument of an active
sentence like (2) or (3). Moreover, it can be said that the Agent argument gets suppressed in (1). Therefore,
it appears reasonable to analyze (1) as a passive construction both Chinese-internally
and crosslinguistically. As for whether a </span>
<i>bèi</i><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:New serif;">-construction like (4) can
be analyzed as a passive construction that fits the definition, such an analysis
is possible if one accepts the (controversial and debatable) assumption that <i>bèi</i>
in (4) assumes not only its primary role of being a passive marker but also an
additional role of being a preposition. </span></p>
<p class="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:New serif;"> </span></p>
<p class="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"></p><img src="cid:uojd8nbd52huUff6xuEq" alt="image.png" style="width: 412px; max-width: 752px;"><p class="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family:New serif;font-size:12pt;"> </span><span style="font-family:New serif;font-size:12pt;"> </span><br clear="none"></p>
<p class="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:New serif;">Best regards,</span></p>
<p class="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119gmail-MsoNoSpacing" style="text-align:justify;margin:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:New serif;">Chao</span></p></div><br clear="none"><div class="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119gmail_quote"><div class="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119yqt2697720087" id="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119yqt58074"><div class="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 10:07 AM Martin Haspelmath <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:martin_haspelmath@eva.mpg.de" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">martin_haspelmath@eva.mpg.de</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
<div>
According to my favourite definition of "passive construction",
these Mandarin examples are (apparently) not passive constructions:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<font size="-1">"A passive voice construction is a verb-coded
valency construction (i) whose sister valency construction is
transitive and not verb-coded, and (ii) which has an S-argument
corresponding to the transitive P, and (iii) which has a
suppressed or oblique-flagged argument corresponding to the
transitive A".</font><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
According to this definition, a passive construction "marks both the
agent and the verb" (unless the agent is suppressed or otherwise
absent). But Ian Joo's question was probably about languages where
the SAME marker can occur on the verb and on the oblique agent. This
would be very unusual, because passive voice markers are not
expected to be similar to an oblique agent flag.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Now my question is: Are these Mandarin (and Shanghainese)
BEI/GEI-constructions passives? They have traditionally been called
passives, but since the BEI element is obligatory, while the agent
can be omitted (<i>Zhangsan bei (Lisi) da le</i> 'Zhangsan was hit
(by Lisi)'), it cannot be a preposition or case prefix. At least
that would seem to follow from the definition of "affix/adposition".
So I think this construction doesn't fall under a rigorous
definition of "passive construction". (Rather, it is a sui generis
construction.)<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Some authors might say that it is a "noncanonical passive" (cf.
Legate, Julie Anne. 2021. Noncanonical passives: A typology of
voices in an impoverished Universal Grammar. <i>Annual Review of
Linguistics</i> 7(1). doi:<a shape="rect" href="https://doi.org/10.1146/annurev-linguistics-031920-114459" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">10.1146/annurev-linguistics-031920-114459</a>),
but there does not seem to be a clear limit to this vague notion (is
every topicalization construction a noncanonical passive?). I do not
know of a fully explicit definition of "passive construction" that
clearly includes the Mandarin BEI constructions.<br clear="none">
<span title="url_ver=Z39.88-2004&ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fzotero.org%3A2&rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1146%2Fannurev-linguistics-031920-114459&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=Noncanonical%20passives%3A%20A%20typology%20of%20voices%20in%20an%20impoverished%20Universal%20Grammar&rft.jtitle=Annual%20Review%20of%20Linguistics&rft.volume=7&rft.issue=1&rft.aufirst=Julie%20Anne&rft.aulast=Legate&rft.au=Julie%20Anne%20Legate&rft.date=2021"></span><br clear="none">
Best wishes,<br clear="none">
Martin<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div>Am 28.02.21 um 19:46 schrieb bingfu Lu:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-size:16px;font-family:courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">A better example
in Mandarin may be:</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;"><span style="color:rgb(38,40,42);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Zhangsan bei-Lisi gei-da-le.</span><br clear="none" style="color:rgb(38,40,42);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">
<span style="color:rgb(38,40,42);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Zhangsan PASS-Lisi
PASS-hit-PRF</span><br clear="none" style="color:rgb(38,40,42);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">
<span style="color:rgb(38,40,42);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">`Zhangsan was hit by
Lisi.'</span></div>
<div style="font-family:courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">'bei' is
etymologically related to 'suffer' while‘给’ to 'give'.</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">In fact, </div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;"><span><span style="color:rgb(38,40,42);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">Zhangsan
bei-(Lisi) da-le.</span></span><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#26282a">can also change to</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#26282a"><span><span style="color:rgb(38,40,42);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">Zhangsan gei-(Lisi）
da-le.</span></span><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#26282a"><span><span style="color:rgb(38,40,42);font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><br clear="none">
</span></span></font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#26282a">Furthermore, in Shanghainese, the PASS is
a morpheme homophonic to the morpheme for 'give'.</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#26282a"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr">regards,<br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">Bingfu Lu</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">Beijing
Language University</div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;"><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<div id="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119gmail-m_-7067846232154779631ydp9b85d7ebyahoo_quoted_4775567649">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42);">
<div> On Sunday, February 28, 2021, 10:26:36 PM GMT+8, JOO,
Ian [Student] <a shape="rect" href="mailto:ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk></a> wrote: </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div id="ydp84b9ea36yiv3911680119gmail-m_-7067846232154779631ydp9b85d7ebyiv9747170334">
<div>
<div>
<div>Dear typologists,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I wonder if you are aware of any language whose
passive construction marks both the agent and the
verb.<br clear="none">
For example, in Mandarin, the agent receives the
passive marker <em>bei.</em><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
(1) Zhangsan bei-Lisi da-le.<br clear="none">
Zhangsan PASS-Lisi hit-PRF<br clear="none">
`Zhangsan was hit by Lisi.'<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
When the agent is omitted, the verb receives <em>bei</em>.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
(2) Zhangsan bei-da-le.<br clear="none">
Zhangsan PASS-hit-PRF<br clear="none">
`Zhangsan was hit.'<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
But, in some occasions, both the agent and the verb
receive <em>bei</em>:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
(3) Zhangsan bei-Lisi bei-da-le.<br clear="none">
Zhangsan PASS-Lisi PASS-hit-PRF<br clear="none">
`Zhangsan was hit by Lisi.'<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Are you aware of any other language where a
construction like (3) is possible?<br clear="none">
The only one I am aware of at the moment is
Vietnamese.<br clear="none">
I would greatly appreciate any help.</div>
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
Regards,
<div>Ian</div>
</div>
<img alt="" src="https://www.polyu.edu.hk/emaildisclaimer/PolyU_Email_Signature.jpg" data-inlineimagemanipulating="true" data-id="1616392416314">
<p><br clear="none">
<em><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">Disclaimer:</font></em></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in;"><i><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" color="black"><span>This
message (including any attachments) contains
confidential information intended for a specific
individual and purpose. If you are not the
intended recipient, you should delete this
message and notify the sender and The Hong Kong
Polytechnic University (the University)
immediately. Any disclosure, copying, or
distribution of this message, or the taking of
any action based on it, is strictly prohibited
and may be unlawful.</span></font></i></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in;"><i><span><font style="background-color:inherit;" size="3" face="Times New Roman">The University
specifically denies any responsibility for the
accuracy or quality of information obtained
through University E-mail Facilities. Any views
and opinions expressed are only those of the
author(s) and do not necessarily represent those
of the University and the University accepts no
liability whatsoever for any losses or damages
incurred or caused to any party as a result of
the use of such information.</font></span></i></p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Lingtyp mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a shape="rect" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br clear="none">
<pre>--
Martin Haspelmath
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6
D-04103 Leipzig
<a shape="rect" href="https://www.shh.mpg.de/employees/42385/25522" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://www.shh.mpg.de/employees/42385/25522</a></pre>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Lingtyp mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br clear="none">
<a shape="rect" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br clear="none">
</blockquote></div></div>
</div></div><div class="ydp84b9ea36yqt2697720087" id="ydp84b9ea36yqt61407">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Lingtyp mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br clear="none"></div></div>
</div>
</div></body></html>