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And it is only in this exchange that I realize that German <i>Mal</i>
'time (in the sense of the French <i>fois</i>)' can be used in a
somewhat similar way, in the combination <i>zumal</i> (= <i>zu Mal</i>):<br>
<br>
<i>Ich werde gehen, zumal du so früh gekommen bist.</i><br>
'I'll be leaving, as you came so early.'<br>
<br>
Maybe German also borrowed this from French in one way or another.
(But note that <i>zumal</i> only means '(in as much) as', i.e. it
only has a causal sense.)<br>
<br>
(There are so many similarities among European languages that seem
to be due to borrowing in one way or another...)<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 01.04.21 um 09:39 schrieb Michael
Daniel:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CABAHGwcgT87pKrC34e5+vPPb5yed98cjkbgvx45AuZF_iBJ+5Q@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Dear all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>only in this exchange I realized that the Russian <i>раз</i>
'time' (in the sense of the French 'fois'), is used in a
syntactically similar construction but functionally different
construction as introducing cause complement clauses:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><i>Раз ты пришел так рано, я пойду</i>.</div>
<div>As you came so early, I'll be leaving. (Lit. 'Time <a
href="http://you.sg" moz-do-not-send="true">you.sg</a>
come.Pst so early, I leave.Prs)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Note that no numeral is used in these constructions, unlike
what the original query was looking for.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But is the French "Une fois que" not somewhat similar to
Russian in this respect, in that it is not (only) used in the
sense "as soon as" but also to introduce subordinate clauses
of cause? (And maybe English, too, once we're on this). In
fact, it would be good to check whether the Russian
construction is not a 19th century pattern copy from French.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Michael</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">чт, 1 апр. 2021 г. в 08:33,
Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez <<a
href="mailto:olguinmartinez@ucsb.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">olguinmartinez@ucsb.edu</a>>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Dear
all,<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">
<div dir="ltr"
style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span>
<div class="gmail_default">Sorry for not
having been clearer in my previous
email.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Yes, English
'once' is used in this way :) </div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
</span>
<div class="gmail_default">I did not mention
English and other European
languages because in Mandarin and the
other Hmong-Mien languages I mentioned
before, the second clause appears with
another linker (lit. <i>on(c)e</i>........'(<i>and</i>)
<i>then</i>'). Accordingly, these
languages show some sort of correlative
construction. Based on the languages of
the sample, this usage of 'on(c)e' in a
correlative construction is not common
cross-linguistically. It seems that
Hmong-Mien languages have copied this
strategy with native material from
Mandarin. This is some sort of 'pattern
replication'. I was expecting to receive
more answers concerned with languages
spoken in this area in order to see if
these languages have also copied this
pattern from Mandarin.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Thank you in
advance.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Best,</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at
8:37 PM Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez <<a
href="mailto:olguinmartinez@ucsb.edu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">olguinmartinez@ucsb.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Dear
all,</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">I
hope this message finds you well.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">As
I was consulting various sources, it seems that
the numeral 'one' in the expression of 'as soon
as' is not common cross-linguistically. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">In
my sample, this is attested in Standard Mandarin
(i.e. <i>yī), </i>Xong (Hmong-Mien), and <span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;font-size:11pt">Iu Mien
(Hmong-Mien). Are you aware of any other
languages that express 'as soon as' in a similar
way?</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;font-size:11pt"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;font-size:11pt">Thank you very
much in advance.</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(33,33,33);margin:0px"><font
face="AR CENA"><span
style="font-size:14.6667px">Jesús Olguín
Martínez</span></font></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Segoe
UI","Segoe
WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:15px;margin:0px"><font
size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR
CENA">Ph.D. Candidate, Dept. of
Linguistics</font></span></font></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Segoe
UI","Segoe
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size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR
CENA"><i>University of California, Santa
Barbara (UCSB)</i></font></span></font></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Segoe
UI","Segoe
WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:15px;margin:0px"><font
size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR
CENA"><a
href="http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jes%C3%BAs-olgu%C3%ADn-mart%C3%ADnez"
style="color:rgb(17,85,204)"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jesús-olguín-martínez</a></font></span></font></div>
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</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(33,33,33);margin:0px"><font
face="AR CENA"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Jesús
Olguín Martínez</span></font></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Segoe
UI","Segoe
WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:15px;margin:0px"><font
size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR CENA">Ph.D.
Candidate, Dept. of Linguistics</font></span></font></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Segoe
UI","Segoe
WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:15px;margin:0px"><font
size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR CENA"><i>University
of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB)</i></font></span></font></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Segoe
UI","Segoe
WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:15px;margin:0px"><font
size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span
style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR CENA"><a
href="http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jes%C3%BAs-olgu%C3%ADn-mart%C3%ADnez"
style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jesús-olguín-martínez</a></font></span></font></div>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
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