<div dir="ltr">The same as French <i>une fois que,</i> It.<i> una volta che </i>underlines the temporal succession of two events: <i>una volta che avrai finito il libro mi dirai cosa ne pensi "</i>once you'll finish reading the book you'll tell me how you feel about it". This does not imply an immediate reaction and u<i>na volta</i> <i>che </i>is more or less equivalent to <i>quando: Quando avrai finito </i>etc<i>. </i>Immediate reaction is expressed by <i>appena (che): appena (che) avrai finito </i>etc<i>. = dès que tu </i>etc<i>. (= as soon as you...). </i>At any rate, both <i>una volta che </i>and <i>appena (che) </i>introduce a correlated construction as in the Hmong-Mien languages.<div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Paolo</div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">prof. dr. Paolo Ramat<div><div> Università di Pavia (retired)</div><div>Istituto Universitario Studi Superiori (IUSS Pavia) (retired)</div><div>Accademia dei Lincei, Socio corrispondente<br><div>'Academia Europaea'</div><div>'Societas Linguistica Europaea', Honorary Member</div></div></div><div>piazzetta Arduino 11 - I 27100 Pavia</div><div>##39 0382 27027</div><div>347 044 98 44</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno ven 2 apr 2021 alle ore 07:05 MM Jocelyne Fernandez <<a href="mailto:mmjocelynefern@gmail.com">mmjocelynefern@gmail.com</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>As I remarked above, the French "une fois (que)" is not the
equivalent of "dès que" (<i>as soon as)</i>: it has a temporal
meaning that emphasizes the relation of succession between two
actions, but implies neither immediacy nor cause, rather a sense
of completeness of the (temporally but not syntactically) first
action.</p>
<p> - Tu m'appelles une fois (que tu seras) rentré!</p>
<p> "(You'll) call me once you're home!"</p>
<p> ≠ - Tu m'appelles dès que tu seras rentré!"</p>
<p>Maybe the same connotations can be found in the Russian
construction?</p>
<p> MMJocelyne Fernandez-Vest</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>Le 01/04/2021 à 09:39, Michael Daniel a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Dear all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>only in this exchange I realized that the Russian <i>раз</i>
'time' (in the sense of the French 'fois'), is used in a
syntactically similar construction but functionally different
construction as introducing cause complement clauses:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><i>Раз ты пришел так рано, я пойду</i>.</div>
<div>As you came so early, I'll be leaving. (Lit. 'Time <a href="http://you.sg" target="_blank">you.sg</a>
come.Pst so early, I leave.Prs)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Note that no numeral is used in these constructions, unlike
what the original query was looking for.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But is the French "Une fois que" not somewhat similar to
Russian in this respect, in that it is not (only) used in the
sense "as soon as" but also to introduce subordinate clauses
of cause? (And maybe English, too, once we're on this). In
fact, it would be good to check whether the Russian
construction is not a 19th century pattern copy from French.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Michael</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">чт, 1 апр. 2021 г. в 08:33,
Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez <<a href="mailto:olguinmartinez@ucsb.edu" target="_blank">olguinmartinez@ucsb.edu</a>>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Dear
all,<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span>
<div class="gmail_default">Sorry for not
having been clearer in my previous
email.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Yes, English
'once' is used in this way :) </div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
</span>
<div class="gmail_default">I did not mention
English and other European
languages because in Mandarin and the
other Hmong-Mien languages I mentioned
before, the second clause appears with
another linker (lit. <i>on(c)e</i>........'(<i>and</i>)
<i>then</i>'). Accordingly, these
languages show some sort of correlative
construction. Based on the languages of
the sample, this usage of 'on(c)e' in a
correlative construction is not common
cross-linguistically. It seems that
Hmong-Mien languages have copied this
strategy with native material from
Mandarin. This is some sort of 'pattern
replication'. I was expecting to receive
more answers concerned with languages
spoken in this area in order to see if
these languages have also copied this
pattern from Mandarin.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Thank you in
advance.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Best,</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at
8:37 PM Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez <<a href="mailto:olguinmartinez@ucsb.edu" target="_blank">olguinmartinez@ucsb.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Dear
all,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">I
hope this message finds you well.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">As
I was consulting various sources, it seems that
the numeral 'one' in the expression of 'as soon
as' is not common cross-linguistically. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">In
my sample, this is attested in Standard Mandarin
(i.e. <i>yī), </i>Xong (Hmong-Mien), and <span>Iu Mien
(Hmong-Mien). Are you aware of any other
languages that express 'as soon as' in a similar
way?</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><span>Thank you very
much in advance.</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(33,33,33);margin:0px"><font face="AR CENA"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Jesús Olguín
Martínez</span></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR
CENA">Ph.D. Candidate, Dept. of
Linguistics</font></span></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR
CENA"><i>University of California, Santa
Barbara (UCSB)</i></font></span></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR
CENA"><a href="http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jes%C3%BAs-olgu%C3%ADn-mart%C3%ADnez" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jesús-olguín-martínez</a></font></span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(33,33,33);margin:0px"><font face="AR CENA"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Jesús
Olguín Martínez</span></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR CENA">Ph.D.
Candidate, Dept. of Linguistics</font></span></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR CENA"><i>University
of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB)</i></font></span></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR CENA"><a href="http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jes%C3%BAs-olgu%C3%ADn-mart%C3%ADnez" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jesús-olguín-martínez</a></font></span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<div>-- <br>
Prof. M.M.Jocelyne FERNANDEZ-VEST <br>
</div>
<div>CNRS & Université Sorbonne Nouvelle</div>
</div>
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