<chatflow-meta x-message-id="c-796c6-kndl4w0p-tsbzgy=1f2gnjg@2.gethop.com" x-data="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"></chatflow-meta><div dir="LTR">Hi David,<br><br>Re: your first question, this construction is very much present in Australian English. It has been common for over 10 years and possibly also in New Zealand English, as suggested by a favourite series of mine produced by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cPs2SzShNc" >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cPs2SzShNc</a>).<br><br>I'd also add that my intuition is that the example you gave from AusE is perhaps more 'complete' than the explanation suggests. You could certainly ask someone "sweet as what?" but the response would likely be "I don't know, just sweet as!".<br><br>Cheers,<br>Naomi</div><chatflow-embed type="card"><br><div style="border-radius:10px;background:#f0f0f0;max-width:640px;"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" border="0" width="100%" style="table-layout:fixed"><tr><td width="60" nowrap><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cPs2SzShNc" style="text-decoration:none;"><img src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3cPs2SzShNc/hqdefault.jpg" width="60" height="60" border="0" style="display:block;border-radius:8px;object-fit:cover"></a></td><td width="10" nowrap><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cPs2SzShNc" style="text-decoration:none; display:block; width:100%; height:60px !important;"> </a></td><td width="100%" valign="middle"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cPs2SzShNc" style="text-decoration:none;"><div style="line-height:20px;max-height:20px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;white-space:nowrap;"><b>Beached Az: The Seagull. Ep 1, Series 1</b></div><div style="color:#666;line-height:20px;max-height:20px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;white-space:nowrap;">After waking up on the shores of a New Zealand beach, the Whale encounters a Seagull who has trouble comprehending why whales can't eat chips.</div></a></td><td width="10" nowrap><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cPs2SzShNc" style="text-decoration:none; display:block; width:100%; height:60px !important;"> </a></td></tr></table></div></chatflow-embed><div class="chatflow-embed" x-type="signature"><br></div><div class="hop_extra"><br>On April 11, 2021 at 19:28 GMT, David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="hop_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .2ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br></div><div>
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    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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    <p>
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    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">Dear all,<br>
      </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"><br>
      </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">I'm interested in
        exploring the properties and geographical distribution of a
        novel (well, to me
        at least) construction type which might be termed "Elided
        Intensification'.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>I'll
        explain with an
        example.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>In Papuan
        Malay, property-denoting and some other words
        may be intensified by the addition of <i>sampe</i>, a word
        whose other, more
        basic functions, include 'arrive' and 'until', e.g.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">(1) <span style="mso-tab-count:1">      </span>Enak
        sampe</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">            </span>nice
        SAMPE</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">            </span>'Very
        nice.'</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">My informal
        "interpretation" of this construction is that it involves, or at
        least originated in, some kind of understood expression such as
        "nice arriving
        (at complete fulfillment)", or "nice until (completion)".<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>As Papuan Malay is largely
        head-initial, it
        kind of feels like something is missing after the word <i>sampe</i>.<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>(In Malay/Indonesian, this
        construction seems
        to be restricted geographically to the north coast of New Guinea
        and possibly
        also Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is absent.)</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">So far, I am familiar
        with two other potential cases of Elided Intensification.<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>The first is from Ambel, an
        Austronesian
        language spoken in the Raja Ampat archipelago of the northwest
        coast of New
        Guinea, in a region where Papuan Malay is also spoken.<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>As described by Arnold
        (2018:145, pers comm),
        <i>aya</i> 'until' is used in a construction closely resembling
        that in (1):</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
        mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin">(2)
        <span style="mso-tab-count:1">      </span>Anlómo aya </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
        mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin"><span
          style="mso-tab-count:1">            </span>bleed.3SG.INAN AYA
      </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
        mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin"><span
          style="mso-tab-count:1">            </span>‘It bled a lot.’</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"
      style="margin-left:27.0pt;text-align:justify;text-justify:
      inter-ideograph;text-indent:-27.0pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan
      lines-together"><span
        style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin">Arnold,
        Laura. 2018.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span><i
          style="mso-bidi-font-style:
          normal">A Grammar of Ambel, An Austronesian Language of West
          New Guinea</i>.
        PhD Dissertation.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>Edinburgh:
        University
        of Edinburgh.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">The second example,
        which I just came across, and which prompted this query, is
        Australian English.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>In
        the Wikipedia entry for Australian
        English, in a paragraph which deals with the infensification of
        adjectives, the
        following rather tantalizing passage occurs:</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
        mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin">"In
        informal
        speech, incomplete comparisons are sometimes used, such as
        "sweet as"
        (as in "That car is sweet as.")."</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
        mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
        mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin">So
        here it's comparative 'as' rather than 'arrive'/'until' that
        comes after the word being intensified, but still, all these
        cases seem to
        involve intensification with the elision of some kind of
        argument associated
        with the property word and denoting an extreme extent of the
        property in
        question.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">My questions:</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">1.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>Could
        speakers of Australian English please
        confirm the existence of this construction, and comment on it.<span
          style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>Does it occur in other
        varieties of English?<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>(It
        was certainly completely new to me!)</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">2.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>Is
        anybody familiar with possible cases of
        Elided Intensification in other languages, in Australia, New
        Guinea or
        elsewhere?<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>On the flimsy
        basis of three
        examples, it looks like an Australian / New Guinea areal
        feature: is this the
        case?<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>For the Australia
        / New Guinea
        region I'd also appreciate negative data, of the form "no, my
        language
        definitely doesn't do this".</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">3.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>Any
        further comments and suggestions ...</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">Thanks,</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">David</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
        mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p>
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    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
David Gil
 
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
 
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
  </div>
</div>
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