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Yep, the construction’s crazy as, but it’s widespread in Australian English. And as Ilana says, ‘as’ has terminal falling intonation.
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<div>Bill<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On 12 Apr 2021, at 9:18 am, Jess Tauber <tetrahedralpt@gmail.com> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">I remember an 'as good as' in one of the Harry Potter films (I think it was the Order of the Phoenix?). This is where Mrs. Wheasley says of Harry 'He's as good as' with reference to him not being her actual son.
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<div>Jess Tauber</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 6:36 PM David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:<br>
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<p>Thanks to those who have responded to my query so far, either to me personally or on the list.</p>
<p>I'd like to clarify what I had in mind by "elided" or "incomplete". I am using these terms grammatically / semantically, to express the intuition that there's something missing after the intensifier, given that forms such as Papuan Malay
<i>sampe</i> and (Australian) English <i>as</i> usually occur in construction with another, following expression (or "complement").</p>
<p>I was not implying that the construction in question should "sound incomplete" (to use Ilana's words below). But it's interesting that she characterizes the Australian English
<i>as</i> construction as being associated with a "particular intonation", since the same is true also for the Papuan Malay construction with
<i>sampe</i>. Though the specifics of the intonation contour seem to differ (in Papuan Malay, the peak of the contour falls on the preceding word, while the intensifier
<i>sampe</i> is associated with low pitch, sounding like an afterthought).</p>
<p>David</p>
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<div>On 12/04/2021 00:58, Ilana Mushin wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite">I can also confirm ‘sweet as’ in Australian English. I’ve seen it on advertising billboards. I think the construction ‘X as’ can be somewhat productive - eg I’ve certainly heard ‘dumb as’. There is a particular intonation that goes
with the construction - the ‘as’ is lengthened and has a rise-fall contour so it doesn’t sound incomplete (this is impressionistic - someone may have a better idea of the prosody than me).
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<div>Ilana<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Associate Professor Ilana Mushin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Reader in Linguistics<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">President, Australian Linguistic Society<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><img id="gmail-m_1709497685492747566Picture_x0020_1" alt="/var/folders/lv/m77kqy0n4x1_rcd3pk0j2n900000gq/T/com.microsoft.Outlook/WebArchiveCopyPasteTempFiles/il.pb.png" style="width: 0.6041in; height: 0.8125in;" width="58" height="78" data-unique-identifier="">Co-Editor, <i>Interactional
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><b style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">I acknowledge the Jagera and Turrbal peoples on whose land I live and work. Their sovereignty was never ceded.</b></p>
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<blockquote type="cite">On 12 Apr 2021, at 5:27 am, David Gil <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">
<gil@shh.mpg.de></a> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear all,<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I'm interested in exploring the properties and geographical distribution of a novel (well, to me at least) construction type which might be termed "Elided Intensification'.<span>
</span>I'll explain with an example.<span> </span>In Papuan Malay, property-denoting and some other words may be intensified by the addition of
<i>sampe</i>, a word whose other, more basic functions, include 'arrive' and 'until', e.g.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(1) <span> </span>Enak sampe</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span>nice SAMPE</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><span> </span>'Very nice.'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My informal "interpretation" of this construction is that it involves, or at least originated in, some kind of understood expression such as "nice arriving (at complete fulfillment)", or "nice until (completion)".<span>
</span>As Papuan Malay is largely head-initial, it kind of feels like something is missing after the word
<i>sampe</i>.<span> </span>(In Malay/Indonesian, this construction seems to be restricted geographically to the north coast of New Guinea and possibly also Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is absent.)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">So far, I am familiar with two other potential cases of Elided Intensification.<span>
</span>The first is from Ambel, an Austronesian language spoken in the Raja Ampat archipelago of the northwest coast of New Guinea, in a region where Papuan Malay is also spoken.<span>
</span>As described by Arnold (2018:145, pers comm), <i>aya</i> 'until' is used in a construction closely resembling that in (1):</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>(2) <span> </span>Anlómo aya </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span> </span>bleed.3SG.INAN AYA </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span> </span>‘It bled a lot.’</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:27pt;text-align:justify"><span>Arnold, Laura. 2018.<span>
</span><i>A Grammar of Ambel, An Austronesian Language of West New Guinea</i>. PhD Dissertation.<span>
</span>Edinburgh: University of Edinburgh.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The second example, which I just came across, and which prompted this query, is Australian English.<span>
</span>In the Wikipedia entry for Australian English, in a paragraph which deals with the infensification of adjectives, the following rather tantalizing passage occurs:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>"In informal speech, incomplete comparisons are sometimes used, such as "sweet as" (as in "That car is sweet as.")."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>So here it's comparative 'as' rather than 'arrive'/'until' that comes after the word being intensified, but still, all these cases seem to involve intensification with the elision of some kind of argument associated with the property
word and denoting an extreme extent of the property in question.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My questions:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">1.<span> </span>Could speakers of Australian English please confirm the existence of this construction, and comment on it.<span>
</span>Does it occur in other varieties of English?<span> </span>(It was certainly completely new to me!)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">2.<span> </span>Is anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided Intensification in other languages, in Australia, New Guinea or elsewhere?<span>
</span>On the flimsy basis of three examples, it looks like an Australian / New Guinea areal feature: is this the case?<span>
</span>For the Australia / New Guinea region I'd also appreciate negative data, of the form "no, my language definitely doesn't do this".</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">3.<span> </span>Any further comments and suggestions ...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">David</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<pre cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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<pre cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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