<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><br><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPad</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On 12. Apr 2021, at 09:58, Guillaume Segerer <guillaume.segerer@cnrs.fr> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
  
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    Dear all<br>
    <br>
    In Joola (Niger-Congo, Atlantic, Keeraak variety), <b><i>nɔɔn</i></b>
    means 'as' or 'like', as in the following examples :<br>
    <br>
    <i>dɔmɔ fʊtɛm <b>nɔɔn</b> wah warɛɛmɛ</i><br>
    COP.IMPERS smell.IMPERF 'as' thing has-burnt<br>
    'it smells as if something has burnt' (French: 'ça sent comme si
    quelque chose avait brûlé')<br>
    <br>
    <i>hʊkɛn ɩnjɛ ɩ-cɔkɔm barɛ i-sim <b>nɔɔn</b> ɛbɔɔs<br>
    </i>yesterday I 1sg-wound.PERF but 1sg-bleed 'like' cow<br>
    'Yesterday I got wounded and I bleeded like a cow' (French 'hier je
    me suis blessé et j'ai saigné comme une vache')<br>
    <br>
    It may also be used as an intensifier :<br>
    <br>
    <i>sɩnaŋas si-suum-e <b>nɔɔn</b></i><br>
    cooked_rice AGR-be.good-PERF <i><b>nɔɔn</b></i><br>
    'the rice is very good'<br>
    <br>
    <i>na-cab-ɛ nɔɔn ɛɬakɛnay</i><br>
    3sg-do.quickly-PERF <i><b>nɔɔn</b></i> INF.cook<br>
    He did the cooking very quickly<br>
    <br>
    <i>nʊ-ŋəmi-e <b>nɔɔn</b> jabajɔɔraj jala di baɲɩɩlab</i><br>
    2sg-love-PERF <i><b>nɔɔn</b></i> INF.scold of at children<br>
    'you really love to scold children'<br>
    <br>
    In Joola, qualities are mostly expressed by verbs. As can be seen in
    the above examples, <i><b>nɔɔn</b></i> always appears after verbs,
    and I have no counterexample (but the number of examples is not that
    high...). These constructions may be considered as 'elided', since
    they may often (always ?) be completed by the word <i><b>bəjəəm</b></i>,
    for which none of my consultants could provide a translation...
    (this reminds me of the French expression 'comme tout' in 'il est
    gentil comme tout') :<br>
    <i>suum-e <b>nɔɔn</b> ~ suum-e <b>nɔɔn bəjəəm</b></i><br>
    IMPERS.be.good-PERF <i><b>nɔɔn</b></i> ~ IMPERS.be.good-PERF <i>as</i>
    ????<br>
    'it is very good'<br>
    <br>
    Unfortunately, my knowledge of the language does not allow me to be
    more precise. I still hope this may help.<br>
    <br>
    Guillaume<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Und wie, Guillaume!  (Which is German.)<div><br><div>Frans<br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 12/04/2021 à 00:35, David Gil a
      écrit :<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:ebdb3e3d-bbfd-5d83-34ed-cb6eec3c7929@shh.mpg.de">
      <p>Thanks to those who have responded to my query so far, either
        to me personally or on the list.</p>
      <p>I'd like to clarify what I had in mind by "elided" or
        "incomplete".  I am using these terms grammatically /
        semantically, to express the intuition that there's something
        missing after the intensifier, given that forms such as Papuan
        Malay <i>sampe</i> and (Australian) English <i>as</i> usually
        occur in construction with another, following expression (or
        "complement").</p>
      <p>I was not implying that the construction in question should
        "sound incomplete" (to use Ilana's words below).  But it's
        interesting that she characterizes the Australian English <i>as</i>
        construction as being associated with a "particular intonation",
        since the same is true also for the Papuan Malay construction
        with <i>sampe</i>.  Though the specifics of the intonation
        contour seem to differ (in Papuan Malay, the peak of the contour
        falls on the preceding word, while the intensifier <i>sampe</i>
        is associated with low pitch, sounding like an afterthought).</p>
      <p>David</p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/04/2021 00:58, Ilana Mushin
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:AFFDBDC0-0851-46E1-9151-D26AFAEE8AB3@uq.edu.au"> I can
        also confirm ‘sweet as’ in Australian English. I’ve seen it on
        advertising billboards. I think the construction ‘X as’ can be
        somewhat productive - eg I’ve certainly heard ‘dumb as’.  There
        is a particular intonation that goes with the construction - the
        ‘as’ is lengthened  and has a rise-fall contour so it doesn’t
        sound incomplete (this is impressionistic - someone may have a
        better idea of the prosody than me). 
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Ilana<br>
          <br>
          <div dir="ltr">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Associate Professor Ilana Mushin</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Reader in Linguistics</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>President, Australian Linguistic
                Society</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><img id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01D66B4B.271B7B40" alt="/var/folders/lv/m77kqy0n4x1_rcd3pk0j2n900000gq/T/com.microsoft.Outlook/WebArchiveCopyPasteTempFiles/il.pb.png" data-unique-identifiermoz-do-not-send="true" moz-do-not-send="true" width="58" height="78" data-unique-identifier="">Co-Editor, <i>Interactional
                  Linguistics</i> (<a href="https://benjamins.com/catalog/il" moz-do-not-send="true">https://benjamins.com/catalog/il</a>) </span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-US">School of
                  Languages and Cultures</span></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-US">University of
                  Queensland</span></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-US">St Lucia, QLD
                  4072.</span></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Ph: <a href="tel:(07)%203365%206810" dir="ltr" moz-do-not-send="true">(07) 3365 6810</a></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span>CRICOS Provider No: 00025B</span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b>I acknowledge the Jagera and
                  Turrbal peoples on whose land I live and work. Their
                  sovereignty was never ceded.</b></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div dir="ltr"><br>
            <blockquote type="cite">On 12 Apr 2021, at 5:27 am, David
              Gil <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true"><gil@shh.mpg.de></a>
              wrote:<br>
              <br>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear all,<br>
                </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
                </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I'm interested in
                  exploring the properties and geographical distribution
                  of a novel (well, to me at least) construction type
                  which might be termed "Elided Intensification'.<span> 
                  </span>I'll explain with an example.<span>  </span>In
                  Papuan Malay, property-denoting and some other words
                  may be intensified by the addition of <i>sampe</i>, a
                  word whose other, more basic functions, include
                  'arrive' and 'until', e.g.</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(1) <span>      </span>Enak
                  sampe</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><span>           
                  </span>nice SAMPE</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><span>           
                  </span>'Very nice.'</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My informal
                  "interpretation" of this construction is that it
                  involves, or at least originated in, some kind of
                  understood expression such as "nice arriving (at
                  complete fulfillment)", or "nice until (completion)".<span> 
                  </span>As Papuan Malay is largely head-initial, it
                  kind of feels like something is missing after the word
                  <i>sampe</i>.<span>  </span>(In Malay/Indonesian,
                  this construction seems to be restricted
                  geographically to the north coast of New Guinea and
                  possibly also Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is
                  absent.)</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">So far, I am
                  familiar with two other potential cases of Elided
                  Intensification.<span>  </span>The first is from
                  Ambel, an Austronesian language spoken in the Raja
                  Ampat archipelago of the northwest coast of New
                  Guinea, in a region where Papuan Malay is also spoken.<span> 
                  </span>As described by Arnold (2018:145, pers comm), <i>aya</i>
                  'until' is used in a construction closely resembling
                  that in (1):</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>(2) <span>      </span>Anlómo
                  aya </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span>            </span>bleed.3SG.INAN
                  AYA </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span>            </span>‘It
                  bled a lot.’</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <span>Arnold, Laura. 2018.<span>  </span><i>A
                    Grammar of Ambel, An Austronesian Language of West
                    New Guinea</i>. PhD Dissertation.<span>  </span>Edinburgh:
                  University of Edinburgh.</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The second
                  example, which I just came across, and which prompted
                  this query, is Australian English.<span>  </span>In
                  the Wikipedia entry for Australian English, in a
                  paragraph which deals with the infensification of
                  adjectives, the following rather tantalizing passage
                  occurs:</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>"In informal speech, incomplete
                  comparisons are sometimes used, such as "sweet as" (as
                  in "That car is sweet as.")."</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span>So here it's comparative 'as'
                  rather than 'arrive'/'until' that comes after the word
                  being intensified, but still, all these cases seem to
                  involve intensification with the elision of some kind
                  of argument associated with the property word and
                  denoting an extreme extent of the property in
                  question.</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My questions:</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">1.<span>  </span>Could
                  speakers of Australian English please confirm the
                  existence of this construction, and comment on it.<span> 
                  </span>Does it occur in other varieties of English?<span> 
                  </span>(It was certainly completely new to me!)</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">2.<span>  </span>Is
                  anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided
                  Intensification in other languages, in Australia, New
                  Guinea or elsewhere?<span>  </span>On the flimsy
                  basis of three examples, it looks like an Australian /
                  New Guinea areal feature: is this the case?<span>  </span>For
                  the Australia / New Guinea region I'd also appreciate
                  negative data, of the form "no, my language definitely
                  doesn't do this".</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">3.<span>  </span>Any
                  further comments and suggestions ...</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks,</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">David</span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
              <p> </p>
              <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
David Gil
 
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
 
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
David Gil
 
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
 
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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    </blockquote>
    <br>
  

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