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<p>Jess,</p>
<p>The construction you cite is a different construction: it's an
elision, to be sure, but it's an elision of a comparative, and
does not have an intensification function: it means 'He's as good
as my son', not 'He's very good'.</p>
<p>And its distribution is different: in my own English, for
example, what Mrs. Wheasley says is fine, whereas <i>sweet as</i>
is word salad. (Though having just spent an hour or so watching
those delightful "Beached As" videos that Naomi Peck provided the
link to, I am tempted to start using the construction!)</p>
<p>David</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/04/2021 02:17, Jess Tauber wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+30tASz1cjiyGD=pMFB8QgaT0-Lz+SF0ei8RcP53usP7BTzSA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">I remember an 'as good as' in one of the Harry
Potter films (I think it was the Order of the Phoenix?). This is
where Mrs. Wheasley says of Harry 'He's as good as' with
reference to him not being her actual son.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jess Tauber</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 6:36
PM David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de"
moz-do-not-send="true">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Thanks to those who have responded to my query so far,
either to me personally or on the list.</p>
<p>I'd like to clarify what I had in mind by "elided" or
"incomplete". I am using these terms grammatically /
semantically, to express the intuition that there's
something missing after the intensifier, given that forms
such as Papuan Malay <i>sampe</i> and (Australian)
English <i>as</i> usually occur in construction with
another, following expression (or "complement").</p>
<p>I was not implying that the construction in question
should "sound incomplete" (to use Ilana's words below).
But it's interesting that she characterizes the Australian
English <i>as</i> construction as being associated with a
"particular intonation", since the same is true also for
the Papuan Malay construction with <i>sampe</i>. Though
the specifics of the intonation contour seem to differ (in
Papuan Malay, the peak of the contour falls on the
preceding word, while the intensifier <i>sampe</i> is
associated with low pitch, sounding like an afterthought).</p>
<p>David</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 12/04/2021 00:58, Ilana Mushin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> I can also confirm ‘sweet as’ in
Australian English. I’ve seen it on advertising
billboards. I think the construction ‘X as’ can be
somewhat productive - eg I’ve certainly heard ‘dumb as’.
There is a particular intonation that goes with the
construction - the ‘as’ is lengthened and has a rise-fall
contour so it doesn’t sound incomplete (this is
impressionistic - someone may have a better idea of the
prosody than me).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ilana<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Associate
Professor Ilana Mushin</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Reader
in Linguistics</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">President,
Australian Linguistic Society</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><img
id="gmail-m_1709497685492747566Picture_x0020_1"
alt="/var/folders/lv/m77kqy0n4x1_rcd3pk0j2n900000gq/T/com.microsoft.Outlook/WebArchiveCopyPasteTempFiles/il.pb.png"
style="width: 0.6041in; height: 0.8125in;"
moz-do-not-send="true" width="58" height="78">Co-Editor, <i>Interactional
Linguistics</i> (<a
href="https://benjamins.com/catalog/il"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://benjamins.com/catalog/il</a>) </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><span
lang="EN-US">School of Languages and Cultures</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><span
lang="EN-US">University of Queensland</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><span
lang="EN-US">St Lucia, QLD 4072.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Ph: <a
href="tel:(07)%203365%206810" dir="ltr"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">(07) 3365
6810</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">CRICOS
Provider No: 00025B</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><b
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">I
acknowledge the Jagera and Turrbal peoples on
whose land I live and work. Their sovereignty
was never ceded.</b></p>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 12 Apr 2021, at 5:27 am,
David Gil <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><gil@shh.mpg.de></a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear all,<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I'm
interested in exploring the properties and
geographical distribution of a novel (well, to
me at least) construction type which might be
termed "Elided Intensification'.<span> </span>I'll
explain with an example.<span> </span>In
Papuan Malay, property-denoting and some other
words may be intensified by the addition of <i>sampe</i>,
a word whose other, more basic functions,
include 'arrive' and 'until', e.g.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(1) <span>
</span>Enak sampe</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><span>
</span>nice SAMPE</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><span>
</span>'Very nice.'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My informal
"interpretation" of this construction is that it
involves, or at least originated in, some kind
of understood expression such as "nice arriving
(at complete fulfillment)", or "nice until
(completion)".<span> </span>As Papuan Malay is
largely head-initial, it kind of feels like
something is missing after the word <i>sampe</i>.<span>
</span>(In Malay/Indonesian, this construction
seems to be restricted geographically to the
north coast of New Guinea and possibly also
Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is absent.)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">So far, I am
familiar with two other potential cases of
Elided Intensification.<span> </span>The first
is from Ambel, an Austronesian language spoken
in the Raja Ampat archipelago of the northwest
coast of New Guinea, in a region where Papuan
Malay is also spoken.<span> </span>As
described by Arnold (2018:145, pers comm), <i>aya</i>
'until' is used in a construction closely
resembling that in (1):</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>(2) <span> </span>Anlómo
aya </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span> </span>bleed.3SG.INAN
AYA </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span> </span>‘It
bled a lot.’</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:27pt;text-align:justify"> <span>Arnold,
Laura. 2018.<span> </span><i>A Grammar of
Ambel, An Austronesian Language of West New
Guinea</i>. PhD Dissertation.<span> </span>Edinburgh:
University of Edinburgh.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The second
example, which I just came across, and which
prompted this query, is Australian English.<span>
</span>In the Wikipedia entry for Australian
English, in a paragraph which deals with the
infensification of adjectives, the following
rather tantalizing passage occurs:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>"In informal speech,
incomplete comparisons are sometimes used, such
as "sweet as" (as in "That car is sweet as.")."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>So here it's comparative
'as' rather than 'arrive'/'until' that comes
after the word being intensified, but still, all
these cases seem to involve intensification with
the elision of some kind of argument associated
with the property word and denoting an extreme
extent of the property in question.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My
questions:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">1.<span> </span>Could
speakers of Australian English please confirm
the existence of this construction, and comment
on it.<span> </span>Does it occur in other
varieties of English?<span> </span>(It was
certainly completely new to me!)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">2.<span> </span>Is
anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided
Intensification in other languages, in
Australia, New Guinea or elsewhere?<span> </span>On
the flimsy basis of three examples, it looks
like an Australian / New Guinea areal feature:
is this the case?<span> </span>For the
Australia / New Guinea region I'd also
appreciate negative data, of the form "no, my
language definitely doesn't do this".</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">3.<span> </span>Any
further comments and suggestions ...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">David</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p> </p>
<pre cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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</blockquote>
<pre cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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