<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Something very similar to what Pier Marco Bertinetto mentioned for Italian is also found in German:<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="font-style: normal;" class="">(1) </span><i class="">Mark ist so groß <b class="">wie</b> Peter</i>.</div><div class="">'M. is as tall as P.ʼ</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">(2) <i class="">Bist du jetzt zufrieden? Und <b class="">wie</b>!</i></div><div class="">ʻAre you happy now? Very much so!ʼ</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A quick and dirty web search gives results such as the following one:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><i class="">(3) Trotz vieler Probleme und Sorgen sind wir mit der Situation zurechtgekommen. <b class="">Und wie!</b> Wir haben keine Verluste geschrieben</i></div><div class="">ʻDespite many issues we could manage the situation. And boy did we manage it! We generated no losses.ʼ</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">According to the discussion on <a href="http://dict.leo.org" class="">dict.leo.org</a>, from where example (3) was pulled, some speakers of Englis</div><div class="">accept <i class="">And how</i>! (<a href="https://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idForum=1&idThread=970086&lp=ende&lang=de" class="">https://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idForum=1&idThread=970086&lp=ende&lang=de</a>).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The Cambridge dictionary seems to agree (<a href="https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/how#how__3" class="">https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/how#how__3</a>).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best,</div><div class="">Bastian</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Am 12.04.2021 um 13:19 schrieb Pier Marco Bertinetto <<a href="mailto:piermarco.bertinetto@sns.it" class="">piermarco.bertinetto@sns.it</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Frans's comment made me realize that one has the same in Italian:<br class=""></div><div class="">"Come" is a comparative marker (an equalizer):<br class=""></div><div class="">Gino è alto come Piero<br class=""></div><div class="">'G. is as tall as P.'</div><div class="">But then one has "eccome" (< "e come" 'and as') which is an intensifier:</div><div class="">Sei felice? Eccome!<br class=""></div><div class="">'Are you happy? Very much!'</div><div class="">It may also be turned into a question: "eccome no?" 'how could it be otherwise?', which retains much of the original comparative meaning.<br class=""></div><div class="">Best<br class=""></div><div class="">Pier Marco</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno lun 12 apr 2021 alle ore 11:10 Frans Plank <<a href="mailto:frans.plank@uni-konstanz.de" class="">frans.plank@uni-konstanz.de</a>> ha scritto:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>Und wie, Guillaume! (Which is German.)<div class=""><br class=""><div class="">Frans<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">Le 12/04/2021 à 00:35, David Gil a
écrit :<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><p class="">Thanks to those who have responded to my query so far, either
to me personally or on the list.</p><p class="">I'd like to clarify what I had in mind by "elided" or
"incomplete". I am using these terms grammatically /
semantically, to express the intuition that there's something
missing after the intensifier, given that forms such as Papuan
Malay <i class="">sampe</i> and (Australian) English <i class="">as</i> usually
occur in construction with another, following expression (or
"complement").</p><p class="">I was not implying that the construction in question should
"sound incomplete" (to use Ilana's words below). But it's
interesting that she characterizes the Australian English <i class="">as</i>
construction as being associated with a "particular intonation",
since the same is true also for the Papuan Malay construction
with <i class="">sampe</i>. Though the specifics of the intonation
contour seem to differ (in Papuan Malay, the peak of the contour
falls on the preceding word, while the intensifier <i class="">sampe</i>
is associated with low pitch, sounding like an afterthought).</p><p class="">David</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<div class="">On 12/04/2021 00:58, Ilana Mushin
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""> I can
also confirm ‘sweet as’ in Australian English. I’ve seen it on
advertising billboards. I think the construction ‘X as’ can be
somewhat productive - eg I’ve certainly heard ‘dumb as’. There
is a particular intonation that goes with the construction - the
‘as’ is lengthened and has a rise-fall contour so it doesn’t
sound incomplete (this is impressionistic - someone may have a
better idea of the prosody than me).
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ilana<br class="">
<br class="">
<div dir="ltr" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Associate Professor Ilana Mushin</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Reader in Linguistics</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">President, Australian Linguistic
Society</span></p><div class=""><span class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><img id="gmail-m_-1268825738199900712Picture_x0020_1" alt="/var/folders/lv/m77kqy0n4x1_rcd3pk0j2n900000gq/T/com.microsoft.Outlook/WebArchiveCopyPasteTempFiles/il.pb.png" width="58" height="78" class="">Co-Editor, <i class="">Interactional
Linguistics</i> (<a href="https://benjamins.com/catalog/il" target="_blank" class="">https://benjamins.com/catalog/il</a>) </span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">School of
Languages and Cultures</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">University of
Queensland</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">St Lucia, QLD
4072.</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Ph: <a href="tel:(07)%203365%206810" dir="ltr" target="_blank" class="">(07) 3365 6810</a></span></p><div class=""><span class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">CRICOS Provider No: 00025B</span></p><div class=""><span class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">I acknowledge the Jagera and
Turrbal peoples on whose land I live and work. Their
sovereignty was never ceded.</b></p>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">On 12 Apr 2021, at 5:27 am, David
Gil <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" class=""><gil@shh.mpg.de></a>
wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">Dear all,<br class="">
</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><br class="">
</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">I'm interested in
exploring the properties and geographical distribution
of a novel (well, to me at least) construction type
which might be termed "Elided Intensification'.<span class="">
</span>I'll explain with an example.<span class=""> </span>In
Papuan Malay, property-denoting and some other words
may be intensified by the addition of <i class="">sampe</i>, a
word whose other, more basic functions, include
'arrive' and 'until', e.g.</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">(1) <span class=""> </span>Enak
sampe</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class="">
</span>nice SAMPE</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class="">
</span>'Very nice.'</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">My informal
"interpretation" of this construction is that it
involves, or at least originated in, some kind of
understood expression such as "nice arriving (at
complete fulfillment)", or "nice until (completion)".<span class="">
</span>As Papuan Malay is largely head-initial, it
kind of feels like something is missing after the word
<i class="">sampe</i>.<span class=""> </span>(In Malay/Indonesian,
this construction seems to be restricted
geographically to the north coast of New Guinea and
possibly also Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is
absent.)</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">So far, I am
familiar with two other potential cases of Elided
Intensification.<span class=""> </span>The first is from
Ambel, an Austronesian language spoken in the Raja
Ampat archipelago of the northwest coast of New
Guinea, in a region where Papuan Malay is also spoken.<span class="">
</span>As described by Arnold (2018:145, pers comm), <i class="">aya</i>
'until' is used in a construction closely resembling
that in (1):</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">(2) <span class=""> </span>Anlómo
aya </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span class=""> </span>bleed.3SG.INAN
AYA </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span class=""> </span>‘It
bled a lot.’</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <span class="">Arnold, Laura. 2018.<span class=""> </span><i class="">A
Grammar of Ambel, An Austronesian Language of West
New Guinea</i>. PhD Dissertation.<span class=""> </span>Edinburgh:
University of Edinburgh.</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">The second
example, which I just came across, and which prompted
this query, is Australian English.<span class=""> </span>In
the Wikipedia entry for Australian English, in a
paragraph which deals with the infensification of
adjectives, the following rather tantalizing passage
occurs:</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">"In informal speech, incomplete
comparisons are sometimes used, such as "sweet as" (as
in "That car is sweet as.")."</span></p><div class=""><span class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">So here it's comparative 'as'
rather than 'arrive'/'until' that comes after the word
being intensified, but still, all these cases seem to
involve intensification with the elision of some kind
of argument associated with the property word and
denoting an extreme extent of the property in
question.</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">My questions:</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">1.<span class=""> </span>Could
speakers of Australian English please confirm the
existence of this construction, and comment on it.<span class="">
</span>Does it occur in other varieties of English?<span class="">
</span>(It was certainly completely new to me!)</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">2.<span class=""> </span>Is
anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided
Intensification in other languages, in Australia, New
Guinea or elsewhere?<span class=""> </span>On the flimsy
basis of three examples, it looks like an Australian /
New Guinea areal feature: is this the case?<span class=""> </span>For
the Australia / New Guinea region I'd also appreciate
negative data, of the form "no, my language definitely
doesn't do this".</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">3.<span class=""> </span>Any
further comments and suggestions ...</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">Thanks,</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">David</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<pre cols="72" class="">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" class="">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre cols="72" class="">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" class="">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all" class=""><br class="">-- <br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><pre cols="72" class=""><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)" class=""><span class=""></span></span>=========================================================
<span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)" class=""><span class=""></span></span> |||| Pier Marco Bertinetto
------ professore emerito
/////// Scuola Normale Superiore
------- <a href="http://p.za/" target="_blank" class="">p.za</a> dei Cavalieri 7<span style="background-color:rgb(243,243,243)" class=""><span class=""></span></span>
/////// I-56126 PISA
------- phone: +39 050 509111
///////
------- HOME
/////// via Matteotti 197
------- I-55049 Viareggio LU
/////// phone: +39 0584 652417<span style="background-color:rgb(204,204,204)" class=""><span style="" class=""></span></span>
------- cell.: +39 368 3830251
=========================================================
editor of "Italian Journal of Linguistics"<br class=""> webpage <<a href="https://www.sns.it/it/bertinetto-pier-marco" target="_blank" class="">https://www.sns.it/it/bertinetto-pier-marco</a>>
"Laboratorio di Linguistica" <<a href="http://linguistica.sns.it/" target="_blank" class="">http://linguistica.sns.it</a>>
=========================================================</pre>
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