<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Something very similar to what Pier Marco Bertinetto mentioned for Italian is also found in German:<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="font-style: normal;" class="">(1) </span><i class="">Mark ist so groß <b class="">wie</b> Peter</i>.</div><div class="">'M. is as tall as P.ʼ</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">(2) <i class="">Bist du jetzt zufrieden? Und <b class="">wie</b>!</i></div><div class="">ʻAre you happy now? Very much so!ʼ</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A quick and dirty web search gives results such as the following one:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><i class="">(3) Trotz vieler Probleme und Sorgen sind wir mit der Situation zurechtgekommen. <b class="">Und wie!</b> Wir haben keine Verluste geschrieben</i></div><div class="">ʻDespite many issues we could manage the situation. And boy did we manage it! We generated no losses.ʼ</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">According to the discussion on <a href="http://dict.leo.org" class="">dict.leo.org</a>, from where example (3) was pulled, some speakers of Englis</div><div class="">accept <i class="">And how</i>! (<a href="https://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idForum=1&idThread=970086&lp=ende&lang=de" class="">https://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idForum=1&idThread=970086&lp=ende&lang=de</a>).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The Cambridge dictionary seems to agree (<a href="https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/how#how__3" class="">https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/how#how__3</a>).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best,</div><div class="">Bastian</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Am 12.04.2021 um 13:19 schrieb Pier Marco Bertinetto <<a href="mailto:piermarco.bertinetto@sns.it" class="">piermarco.bertinetto@sns.it</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Frans's comment made me realize that one has the same in Italian:<br class=""></div><div class="">"Come" is a comparative marker (an equalizer):<br class=""></div><div class="">Gino è alto come Piero<br class=""></div><div class="">'G. is as tall as P.'</div><div class="">But then one has "eccome" (< "e come" 'and as') which is an intensifier:</div><div class="">Sei felice? Eccome!<br class=""></div><div class="">'Are you happy? Very much!'</div><div class="">It may also be turned into a question: "eccome no?" 'how could it be otherwise?', which retains much of the original comparative meaning.<br class=""></div><div class="">Best<br class=""></div><div class="">Pier Marco</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno lun 12 apr 2021 alle ore 11:10 Frans Plank <<a href="mailto:frans.plank@uni-konstanz.de" class="">frans.plank@uni-konstanz.de</a>> ha scritto:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>Und wie, Guillaume!  (Which is German.)<div class=""><br class=""><div class="">Frans<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">
    <br class="">
    <br class="">
    <div class="">Le 12/04/2021 à 00:35, David Gil a
      écrit :<br class="">
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" class=""><p class="">Thanks to those who have responded to my query so far, either
        to me personally or on the list.</p><p class="">I'd like to clarify what I had in mind by "elided" or
        "incomplete".  I am using these terms grammatically /
        semantically, to express the intuition that there's something
        missing after the intensifier, given that forms such as Papuan
        Malay <i class="">sampe</i> and (Australian) English <i class="">as</i> usually
        occur in construction with another, following expression (or
        "complement").</p><p class="">I was not implying that the construction in question should
        "sound incomplete" (to use Ilana's words below).  But it's
        interesting that she characterizes the Australian English <i class="">as</i>
        construction as being associated with a "particular intonation",
        since the same is true also for the Papuan Malay construction
        with <i class="">sampe</i>.  Though the specifics of the intonation
        contour seem to differ (in Papuan Malay, the peak of the contour
        falls on the preceding word, while the intensifier <i class="">sampe</i>
        is associated with low pitch, sounding like an afterthought).</p><p class="">David</p><p class=""><br class="">
      </p>
      <div class="">On 12/04/2021 00:58, Ilana Mushin
        wrote:<br class="">
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite" class=""> I can
        also confirm ‘sweet as’ in Australian English. I’ve seen it on
        advertising billboards. I think the construction ‘X as’ can be
        somewhat productive - eg I’ve certainly heard ‘dumb as’.  There
        is a particular intonation that goes with the construction - the
        ‘as’ is lengthened  and has a rise-fall contour so it doesn’t
        sound incomplete (this is impressionistic - someone may have a
        better idea of the prosody than me). 
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">Ilana<br class="">
          <br class="">
          <div dir="ltr" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Associate Professor Ilana Mushin</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Reader in Linguistics</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">President, Australian Linguistic
                Society</span></p><div class=""><span class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><img id="gmail-m_-1268825738199900712Picture_x0020_1" alt="/var/folders/lv/m77kqy0n4x1_rcd3pk0j2n900000gq/T/com.microsoft.Outlook/WebArchiveCopyPasteTempFiles/il.pb.png" width="58" height="78" class="">Co-Editor, <i class="">Interactional
                  Linguistics</i> (<a href="https://benjamins.com/catalog/il" target="_blank" class="">https://benjamins.com/catalog/il</a>) </span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">School of
                  Languages and Cultures</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">University of
                  Queensland</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">St Lucia, QLD
                  4072.</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Ph: <a href="tel:(07)%203365%206810" dir="ltr" target="_blank" class="">(07) 3365 6810</a></span></p><div class=""><span class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">CRICOS Provider No: 00025B</span></p><div class=""><span class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
            <div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">I acknowledge the Jagera and
                  Turrbal peoples on whose land I live and work. Their
                  sovereignty was never ceded.</b></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
            <blockquote type="cite" class="">On 12 Apr 2021, at 5:27 am, David
              Gil <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" class=""><gil@shh.mpg.de></a>
              wrote:<br class="">
              <br class="">
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div dir="ltr" class="">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">Dear all,<br class="">
                </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><br class="">
                </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">I'm interested in
                  exploring the properties and geographical distribution
                  of a novel (well, to me at least) construction type
                  which might be termed "Elided Intensification'.<span class=""> 
                  </span>I'll explain with an example.<span class="">  </span>In
                  Papuan Malay, property-denoting and some other words
                  may be intensified by the addition of <i class="">sampe</i>, a
                  word whose other, more basic functions, include
                  'arrive' and 'until', e.g.</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">(1) <span class="">      </span>Enak
                  sampe</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class="">           
                  </span>nice SAMPE</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class=""><span class="">           
                  </span>'Very nice.'</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">My informal
                  "interpretation" of this construction is that it
                  involves, or at least originated in, some kind of
                  understood expression such as "nice arriving (at
                  complete fulfillment)", or "nice until (completion)".<span class=""> 
                  </span>As Papuan Malay is largely head-initial, it
                  kind of feels like something is missing after the word
                  <i class="">sampe</i>.<span class="">  </span>(In Malay/Indonesian,
                  this construction seems to be restricted
                  geographically to the north coast of New Guinea and
                  possibly also Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is
                  absent.)</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">So far, I am
                  familiar with two other potential cases of Elided
                  Intensification.<span class="">  </span>The first is from
                  Ambel, an Austronesian language spoken in the Raja
                  Ampat archipelago of the northwest coast of New
                  Guinea, in a region where Papuan Malay is also spoken.<span class=""> 
                  </span>As described by Arnold (2018:145, pers comm), <i class="">aya</i>
                  'until' is used in a construction closely resembling
                  that in (1):</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">(2) <span class="">      </span>Anlómo
                  aya </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span class="">            </span>bleed.3SG.INAN
                  AYA </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span class="">            </span>‘It
                  bled a lot.’</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <span class="">Arnold, Laura. 2018.<span class="">  </span><i class="">A
                    Grammar of Ambel, An Austronesian Language of West
                    New Guinea</i>. PhD Dissertation.<span class="">  </span>Edinburgh:
                  University of Edinburgh.</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">The second
                  example, which I just came across, and which prompted
                  this query, is Australian English.<span class="">  </span>In
                  the Wikipedia entry for Australian English, in a
                  paragraph which deals with the infensification of
                  adjectives, the following rather tantalizing passage
                  occurs:</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">"In informal speech, incomplete
                  comparisons are sometimes used, such as "sweet as" (as
                  in "That car is sweet as.")."</span></p><div class=""><span class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">So here it's comparative 'as'
                  rather than 'arrive'/'until' that comes after the word
                  being intensified, but still, all these cases seem to
                  involve intensification with the elision of some kind
                  of argument associated with the property word and
                  denoting an extreme extent of the property in
                  question.</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">My questions:</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">1.<span class="">  </span>Could
                  speakers of Australian English please confirm the
                  existence of this construction, and comment on it.<span class=""> 
                  </span>Does it occur in other varieties of English?<span class=""> 
                  </span>(It was certainly completely new to me!)</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">2.<span class="">  </span>Is
                  anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided
                  Intensification in other languages, in Australia, New
                  Guinea or elsewhere?<span class="">  </span>On the flimsy
                  basis of three examples, it looks like an Australian /
                  New Guinea areal feature: is this the case?<span class="">  </span>For
                  the Australia / New Guinea region I'd also appreciate
                  negative data, of the form "no, my language definitely
                  doesn't do this".</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">3.<span class="">  </span>Any
                  further comments and suggestions ...</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">Thanks,</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" class="">David</span></p><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
              <pre cols="72" class="">-- 
David Gil
 
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
 
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" class="">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <pre cols="72" class="">-- 
David Gil
 
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
 
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" class="">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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    </blockquote>
    <br class="">
  

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</blockquote></div><br clear="all" class=""><br class="">-- <br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><pre cols="72" class=""><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)" class=""><span class=""></span></span>=========================================================
<span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)" class=""><span class=""></span></span>              ||||            Pier Marco  Bertinetto
             ------             professore emerito
            ///////          Scuola Normale Superiore
           -------             <a href="http://p.za/" target="_blank" class="">p.za</a> dei Cavalieri 7<span style="background-color:rgb(243,243,243)" class=""><span class=""></span></span>
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=========================================================
       editor of "Italian Journal of Linguistics"<br class="">  webpage <<a href="https://www.sns.it/it/bertinetto-pier-marco" target="_blank" class="">https://www.sns.it/it/bertinetto-pier-marco</a>>
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