<div dir="ltr"><div>Frans's comment made me realize that one has the same in Italian:<br></div><div>"Come" is a comparative marker (an equalizer):<br></div><div>Gino è alto come Piero<br></div><div>'G. is as tall as P.'</div><div>But then one has "eccome" (< "e come" 'and as') which is an intensifier:</div><div>Sei felice? Eccome!<br></div><div>'Are you happy? Very much!'</div><div>It may also be turned into a question: "eccome no?" 'how could it be otherwise?', which retains much of the original comparative meaning.<br></div><div>Best<br></div><div>Pier Marco</div><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno lun 12 apr 2021 alle ore 11:10 Frans Plank <<a href="mailto:frans.plank@uni-konstanz.de">frans.plank@uni-konstanz.de</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><br><br><br><div><br></div>Und wie, Guillaume! (Which is German.)<div><br><div>Frans<br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<br>
<br>
<div>Le 12/04/2021 à 00:35, David Gil a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Thanks to those who have responded to my query so far, either
to me personally or on the list.</p>
<p>I'd like to clarify what I had in mind by "elided" or
"incomplete". I am using these terms grammatically /
semantically, to express the intuition that there's something
missing after the intensifier, given that forms such as Papuan
Malay <i>sampe</i> and (Australian) English <i>as</i> usually
occur in construction with another, following expression (or
"complement").</p>
<p>I was not implying that the construction in question should
"sound incomplete" (to use Ilana's words below). But it's
interesting that she characterizes the Australian English <i>as</i>
construction as being associated with a "particular intonation",
since the same is true also for the Papuan Malay construction
with <i>sampe</i>. Though the specifics of the intonation
contour seem to differ (in Papuan Malay, the peak of the contour
falls on the preceding word, while the intensifier <i>sampe</i>
is associated with low pitch, sounding like an afterthought).</p>
<p>David</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 12/04/2021 00:58, Ilana Mushin
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> I can
also confirm ‘sweet as’ in Australian English. I’ve seen it on
advertising billboards. I think the construction ‘X as’ can be
somewhat productive - eg I’ve certainly heard ‘dumb as’. There
is a particular intonation that goes with the construction - the
‘as’ is lengthened and has a rise-fall contour so it doesn’t
sound incomplete (this is impressionistic - someone may have a
better idea of the prosody than me).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ilana<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Associate Professor Ilana Mushin</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Reader in Linguistics</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>President, Australian Linguistic
Society</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><img id="gmail-m_-1268825738199900712Picture_x0020_1" alt="/var/folders/lv/m77kqy0n4x1_rcd3pk0j2n900000gq/T/com.microsoft.Outlook/WebArchiveCopyPasteTempFiles/il.pb.png" width="58" height="78">Co-Editor, <i>Interactional
Linguistics</i> (<a href="https://benjamins.com/catalog/il" target="_blank">https://benjamins.com/catalog/il</a>) </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-US">School of
Languages and Cultures</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-US">University of
Queensland</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span lang="EN-US">St Lucia, QLD
4072.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Ph: <a href="tel:(07)%203365%206810" dir="ltr" target="_blank">(07) 3365 6810</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>I acknowledge the Jagera and
Turrbal peoples on whose land I live and work. Their
sovereignty was never ceded.</b></p>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 12 Apr 2021, at 5:27 am, David
Gil <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank"><gil@shh.mpg.de></a>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear all,<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I'm interested in
exploring the properties and geographical distribution
of a novel (well, to me at least) construction type
which might be termed "Elided Intensification'.<span>
</span>I'll explain with an example.<span> </span>In
Papuan Malay, property-denoting and some other words
may be intensified by the addition of <i>sampe</i>, a
word whose other, more basic functions, include
'arrive' and 'until', e.g.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">(1) <span> </span>Enak
sampe</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><span>
</span>nice SAMPE</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><span>
</span>'Very nice.'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My informal
"interpretation" of this construction is that it
involves, or at least originated in, some kind of
understood expression such as "nice arriving (at
complete fulfillment)", or "nice until (completion)".<span>
</span>As Papuan Malay is largely head-initial, it
kind of feels like something is missing after the word
<i>sampe</i>.<span> </span>(In Malay/Indonesian,
this construction seems to be restricted
geographically to the north coast of New Guinea and
possibly also Northern Maluku; elsewhere it is
absent.)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">So far, I am
familiar with two other potential cases of Elided
Intensification.<span> </span>The first is from
Ambel, an Austronesian language spoken in the Raja
Ampat archipelago of the northwest coast of New
Guinea, in a region where Papuan Malay is also spoken.<span>
</span>As described by Arnold (2018:145, pers comm), <i>aya</i>
'until' is used in a construction closely resembling
that in (1):</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>(2) <span> </span>Anlómo
aya </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span> </span>bleed.3SG.INAN
AYA </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span> </span>‘It
bled a lot.’</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <span>Arnold, Laura. 2018.<span> </span><i>A
Grammar of Ambel, An Austronesian Language of West
New Guinea</i>. PhD Dissertation.<span> </span>Edinburgh:
University of Edinburgh.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The second
example, which I just came across, and which prompted
this query, is Australian English.<span> </span>In
the Wikipedia entry for Australian English, in a
paragraph which deals with the infensification of
adjectives, the following rather tantalizing passage
occurs:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>"In informal speech, incomplete
comparisons are sometimes used, such as "sweet as" (as
in "That car is sweet as.")."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>So here it's comparative 'as'
rather than 'arrive'/'until' that comes after the word
being intensified, but still, all these cases seem to
involve intensification with the elision of some kind
of argument associated with the property word and
denoting an extreme extent of the property in
question.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My questions:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">1.<span> </span>Could
speakers of Australian English please confirm the
existence of this construction, and comment on it.<span>
</span>Does it occur in other varieties of English?<span>
</span>(It was certainly completely new to me!)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">2.<span> </span>Is
anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided
Intensification in other languages, in Australia, New
Guinea or elsewhere?<span> </span>On the flimsy
basis of three examples, it looks like an Australian /
New Guinea areal feature: is this the case?<span> </span>For
the Australia / New Guinea region I'd also appreciate
negative data, of the form "no, my language definitely
doesn't do this".</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">3.<span> </span>Any
further comments and suggestions ...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">David</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p> </p>
<pre cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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</blockquote>
<pre cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><pre cols="72"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span></span></span>=========================================================
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