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<p>Thanks to those who have responded to my query so far, either to
me personally or on the list.</p>
<p>I'd like to clarify what I had in mind by "elided" or
"incomplete". I am using these terms grammatically /
semantically, to express the intuition that there's something
missing after the intensifier, given that forms such as Papuan
Malay <i>sampe</i> and (Australian) English <i>as</i> usually
occur in construction with another, following expression (or
"complement").</p>
<p>I was not implying that the construction in question should
"sound incomplete" (to use Ilana's words below). But it's
interesting that she characterizes the Australian English <i>as</i>
construction as being associated with a "particular intonation",
since the same is true also for the Papuan Malay construction with
<i>sampe</i>. Though the specifics of the intonation contour seem
to differ (in Papuan Malay, the peak of the contour falls on the
preceding word, while the intensifier <i>sampe</i> is associated
with low pitch, sounding like an afterthought).</p>
<p>David</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/04/2021 00:58, Ilana Mushin
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:AFFDBDC0-0851-46E1-9151-D26AFAEE8AB3@uq.edu.au">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
I can also confirm ‘sweet as’ in Australian English. I’ve seen it
on advertising billboards. I think the construction ‘X as’ can be
somewhat productive - eg I’ve certainly heard ‘dumb as’. There is
a particular intonation that goes with the construction - the ‘as’
is lengthened and has a rise-fall contour so it doesn’t sound
incomplete (this is impressionistic - someone may have a better
idea of the prosody than me).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ilana<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Associate
Professor Ilana Mushin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Reader
in Linguistics<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">President,
Australian Linguistic Society<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><img
webkitattachmentid="166167bc-e554-436f-9b85-caefd9cc9de6"
id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.png@01D66B4B.271B7B40"
alt="/var/folders/lv/m77kqy0n4x1_rcd3pk0j2n900000gq/T/com.microsoft.Outlook/WebArchiveCopyPasteTempFiles/il.pb.png"
style="width: 0.6041in; height: 0.8125in;"
data-unique-identifier="" moz-do-not-send="true"
width="58" height="78">Co-Editor, <i>Interactional
Linguistics</i> (<a
href="https://benjamins.com/catalog/il"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://benjamins.com/catalog/il</a>) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><span
lang="EN-US">School of Languages and Cultures</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><span
lang="EN-US">University of Queensland</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><span
lang="EN-US">St Lucia, QLD 4072.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Ph: <a
href="tel:(07)%203365%206810" dir="ltr"
x-apple-data-detectors="true"
x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone"
x-apple-data-detectors-result="1" moz-do-not-send="true">(07)
3365 6810</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">CRICOS
Provider No: 00025B<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><b
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I
acknowledge the Jagera and Turrbal peoples on whose
land I live and work. Their sovereignty was never ceded.</b></p>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 12 Apr 2021, at 5:27 am, David Gil
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de"><gil@shh.mpg.de></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Dear all,<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I'm interested in exploring the properties
and geographical distribution of a novel (well, to me at
least) construction type which might be termed "Elided
Intensification'.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>I'll explain with an example.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>In Papuan Malay,
property-denoting and some other words may be
intensified by the addition of
<i>sampe</i>, a word whose other, more basic functions,
include 'arrive' and 'until', e.g.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">(1)
<span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span>Enak sampe</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">
</span>nice SAMPE</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-tab-count:1">
</span>'Very nice.'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">My informal "interpretation" of this
construction is that it involves, or at least originated
in, some kind of understood expression such as "nice
arriving (at complete fulfillment)", or "nice until
(completion)".<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>As Papuan Malay is largely head-initial, it kind
of feels like something is missing after the word
<i>sampe</i>.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>(In
Malay/Indonesian, this construction seems to be
restricted geographically to the north coast of New
Guinea and possibly also Northern Maluku; elsewhere it
is absent.)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">So far, I am familiar with two other
potential cases of Elided Intensification.<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>The first is from Ambel, an Austronesian language
spoken in the Raja Ampat archipelago of the northwest
coast of New Guinea, in a region where Papuan Malay is
also spoken.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>As described by Arnold (2018:145, pers comm), <i>aya</i>
'until' is used in a construction closely resembling
that in (1):</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin">(2)
<span style="mso-tab-count:1"> </span>Anlómo aya </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin"><span
style="mso-tab-count:1">
</span>bleed.3SG.INAN AYA </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin"><span
style="mso-tab-count:1">
</span>‘It bled a lot.’</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:27.0pt;text-align:justify;text-justify:
inter-ideograph;text-indent:-27.0pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan
lines-together">
<span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin">Arnold,
Laura. 2018.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span><i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">A Grammar
of Ambel, An Austronesian Language of West New Guinea</i>.
PhD Dissertation.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>Edinburgh: University of Edinburgh.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">The second example, which I just came
across, and which prompted this query, is Australian
English.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>In the Wikipedia entry for Australian English, in
a paragraph which deals with the infensification of
adjectives, the following rather tantalizing passage
occurs:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin">"In
informal speech, incomplete comparisons are sometimes
used, such as "sweet as" (as in "That car is sweet
as.")."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin">So
here it's comparative 'as' rather than 'arrive'/'until'
that comes after the word being intensified, but still,
all these cases seem to involve intensification with the
elision of some kind of argument associated with the
property word and denoting an extreme extent of the
property in question.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">My questions:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">1.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>Could speakers of Australian English please
confirm the existence of this construction, and comment
on it.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>Does it occur in other varieties of English?<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>(It was certainly completely new to me!)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">2.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>Is anybody familiar with possible cases of Elided
Intensification in other languages, in Australia, New
Guinea or elsewhere?<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>On the flimsy basis of three examples, it looks
like an Australian / New Guinea areal feature: is this
the case?<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>For the Australia / New Guinea region I'd also
appreciate negative data, of the form "no, my language
definitely doesn't do this".</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">3.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>Any further comments and suggestions ...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">David</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History
Kahlaische Strasse 10, 07745 Jena, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
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