<div dir="ltr">Hoops ! Of course I meant 'sentential', not 'sentinel' !....<div>P.Rt.<br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno sab 8 mag 2021 alle ore 18:20 paolo Ramat <<a href="mailto:paolo.ramat@unipv.it">paolo.ramat@unipv.it</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Jan,<div>why do not add meteorological expressions, like "It's windy", "It's raining" which certainly belong to your 'basic sentinel meanings' . This kind of predicative sentence does not appear in your list.<br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>P.Rt.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">prof. dr. Paolo Ramat<div><div> Università di Pavia (retired)</div><div>Istituto Universitario Studi Superiori (IUSS Pavia) (retired)</div><div>Accademia dei Lincei, Socio corrispondente<br><div>'Academia Europaea'</div><div>'Societas Linguistica Europaea', Honorary Member</div></div></div><div>piazzetta Arduino 11 - I 27100 Pavia</div><div>##39 0382 27027</div><div>347 044 98 44</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno sab 8 mag 2021 alle ore 17:15 Broadwell,George Aaron <<a href="mailto:broadwell@ufl.edu" target="_blank">broadwell@ufl.edu</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Hi Ian,</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Possibly you'll encounter a problem with this group</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<ol>
<li>I have a dog</li><li>I have two dogs</li><li>I have many dogs</li></ol>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">As you probably know, expression of possessive sentences can be very complex cross-linguistically.<br>
<br>
In Choctaw, for example, 'dog' will be the subject of a verb like 'exist' or 'stand' and the verb will supplete to show its number. Both the possessor and possessee can be marked nominative. E.g.</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">John-at ofi-yat im-a̱tta-h <br>
John-nom dog-nom 3dat-exist:sg-tns</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">’John has a dog.’</span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline">These are some of the most complicated sentence types in Choctaw. I think if someone who did not know
much about the lg elicited these as part of 50 basic sentences, their grammar would be quite hard to understand. </span></div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">If you’re looking for simple examples of sg/du/pl contrasts, I would avoid the verb 'have'.</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Aaron B.</div>
<div style="font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
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<div id="gmail-m_-4795521718427094006gmail-m_-8975447484521923836divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Claire Bowern <<a href="mailto:clairebowern@gmail.com" target="_blank">clairebowern@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 8, 2021 9:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> JOO, Ian [Student] <<a href="mailto:ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk" target="_blank">ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> LINGTYP <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] A list of 50 basic sentences</font>
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<div dir="ltr">Many of the subjects are first person pronouns; but ergative splits often differ by whether the subject is nominal or pronominal (or which person).
<div>Claire</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 9:47 AM JOO, Ian [Student] <<a href="mailto:ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk" target="_blank">ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">Dear all,</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">to give you a better idea of what I intend to do with the list, please find attached a manuscript I’ve recently written: Basically the idea is to make interlinear glosses of 50-100 sentences and calculate the Damerau-Levenshtein
distance between the glosses to calculate the distance between two languages.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">So for example if we translate the sentence “I am in the house” into English and Korean,</span></div>
<ul>
<li><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">English has the structure <<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__1.SG&d=DwMFaQ&c=sJ6xIWYx-zLMB3EPkvcnVg&r=qeKcDF9fuJtynE1sgtWkljlMiU6zkoGT-A9LsHjrx94&m=_41v-heIh1mO0HQU9oMR_8A74htfuSqV8FBCy6mfSE8&s=stp2oJg4IANL6q5lP_2HBfFEAatmmyEzO9Pu67Q9wrg&e=" target="_blank">1.SG</a>
be.1.SG.PRES in DET house></span></li><li><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">Korean has the structure <1.SG-TOP house-LOC be-DECL></span></li></ul>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">so we can calculate the DL distance between the two structures (by counting the number of transposition, deletion, and addition) to see how morphosyntactically different the two languages are (in this
case, 2 movements + 3 additions + 5 deletions from English to Korean, so 8 scores of DL distance)</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">So the goal is to translate this list of 50-100 sentences into different languages, gloss them, and calculate the distance between each pair of languages.</span><br>
<span style="font-family:"Times New Roman"">I hope this makes it a bit more clear. I’m sorry for the confusion.</span></div>
</div>
<div name="x_messageSignatureSection"><br>
Regards,
<div dir="auto">Ian</div>
</div>
<div name="x_messageReplySection">On 8 May 2021, 9:34 PM +0800, Yunfan Lai <<a href="mailto:lai@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">lai@shh.mpg.de</a>>, wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border-left:thin solid grey;margin:5px;padding-left:10px">
Hi Ian,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Frankly, I do not think that 50 sentences are sufficient. Sometimes using this sort of lists may be misleading. For example, among most others, the passive constructions in Gyalrongic languages are generally unelicitable. Showing the native speaker a passive
sentence in English may more often than not lead to a translation with an active construction in Gyalrongic. Gyalrongic does have passive morphology, but can almost exclusively be found in natural narratives.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yunfan<br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 8. May 2021, at 15:24, Denys T. <<a href="mailto:denys.teptiuk@gmail.com" target="_blank">denys.teptiuk@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>Hi,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just a random thought: you have inferential, mirative, but what about reportative? </div>
<div>And I am not sure that I understand correctly, but what is honorific about 'My mother ate fish'? ‘Mother’ over ‘mom’? I don’t know what to offer instead, but I would think about changing this one.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best wishes, </div>
<div>Denys </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 8. May 2021, at 16:08, JOO, Ian [Student] <<a href="mailto:ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk" target="_blank">ian.joo@connect.polyu.hk</a>> wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
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<div dir="auto">Dear all,<br>
<br>
I am trying to make a list of 50 basic sentential meanings.<br>
The goal is to make parallel corpora of different languages based on this list of sentences.<br>
Each sentence on the list serves to check whether a language has a given grammatical feature, and if so, in what form the language expresses it.<br>
When creating each sentence, I tried to limit its vocabulary to basic words that are found in most languages, avoiding culture-specific words.<br>
I would appreciate it if you could have a look at the attached file and advise what I should add/remove/modify.</div>
</div>
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<br>
>From Hong Kong,
<div dir="auto">Ian</div>
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