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    Yes, and I think this argues for the use of "agentive – patientive"
    when a language has a valency class that includes verbs like 'talk',
    'sing', 'dance', 'work', and another class that includes verbs like
    'die', 'fall', 'sink', 'wilt'. It seems that all other cases simply
    don't fit into this stereotypical dichotomy.<br>
    <br>
    Incidentally, I have suggested that only patientive single-argument
    verbs (like 'die' and 'fall') should be taken into account for
    determining the S-argument (analogous to the A-argument, which is
    defined by the coding properties of 'kill' and 'break'; <a
      moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://zenodo.org/record/225843">Haspelmath
      2011</a>). <br>
    <br>
    Best,<br>
    Martin<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 12.05.21 um 16:22 schrieb Van Valin,
      Robert:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:BFE3AE82-43A1-44FC-A76D-20E47852279A@buffalo.edu">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      I meant for this to go to the list, too.<br class="">
      <div><br class="">
        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
          <div class="">Begin forwarded message:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
            0px; margin-left: 0px;" class="">
            <span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica
              Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"
              class=""><b class="">From:
              </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font,
              Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Robert
              Van Valin Jr <<a href="mailto:vanvalin@buffalo.edu"
                class="" moz-do-not-send="true">vanvalin@buffalo.edu</a>><br
                class="">
            </span></div>
          <div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
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            <span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica
              Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"
              class=""><b class="">Subject:
              </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font,
              Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b
                class="">Re: [Lingtyp] terminological question about
                intransitive verbs</b><br class="">
            </span></div>
          <div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
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            <span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica
              Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"
              class=""><b class="">Date:
              </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font,
              Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">May 12,
              2021 at 10:18:15 EDT<br class="">
            </span></div>
          <div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:
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            <span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica
              Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);"
              class=""><b class="">To:
              </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font,
              Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Martin
              Haspelmath <<a
                href="mailto:martin_haspelmath@eva.mpg.de" class=""
                moz-do-not-send="true">martin_haspelmath@eva.mpg.de</a>><br
                class="">
            </span></div>
          <br class="">
          <div class="">
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
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              <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
              <br class="">
              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                <div class="">On May 12, 2021, at 09:24, Martin
                  Haspelmath <<a
                    href="mailto:martin_haspelmath@eva.mpg.de" class=""
                    moz-do-not-send="true">martin_haspelmath@eva.mpg.de</a>>
                  wrote:</div>
                <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                <div class="">
                  <div class="">I don't think there's anything wrong
                    with "actor-holding - undergoer-holding", but why
                    not simply "agentive – patientive"?<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    The term pair "actor/undergoer" was coined by Foley
                    & Van Valin (1984: §2.1) in order to have a way
                    to generalize over the following kinds of
                    situations:<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    <i class="">Colin (A) killed the taipan (U).</i><br
                      class="">
                    <i class="">The avalanche (A) crushed the cottage
                      (U).</i><br class="">
                    <i class="">The dog (A) sensed the earthquake (U).</i><br
                      class="">
                    <br class="">
                    Van Valin also used "Actor" and "Undergoer" for two
                    types of Lakota single-argument verbs, but it is
                    well-known that there's a wide range of ways in
                    which languages can have multiple valency
                    constructions for single-argument verbs.</div>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
              Francesca Merlan’s paper in the 1985 Nichols &
              Woodbury (eds) ‘Grammar inside and outside the clause’
              volume is very important in this regard, as she shows that
              languages exhibiting split-intransitivity differ
              significantly in terms of the markedness of the two major
              classes.  For example, in Lakhota the so-called ‘active’
              class is the smaller, more restricted class (must have an
              animate argument), while there is no such restriction on
              the verbs in the larger, unmarked class of so-called
              ’stative’ verbs.  She argues that in Iroquoian the
              situation is reversed: the unmarked class is the ‘active’
              class, and the smaller, restricted class contains the
              ’stative’ predicates.  Given the diversity she documents,
              it’s not obvious that terms like ‘actor/undergoer’ or
              ‘agentive/patientive’ are very useful as general
              typological labels.<br class="">
              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                <div class="">
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                    For example, Russian has some single-argument verbs
                    that take an Accusative argument (<i class="">menja
                      tošnit</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'I.ACC
                    feel sick') and others that take a Dative argument (<i
                      class="">mne nezdorovitsja</i><span
                      class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'I.DAT feel
                    sick'). Are both these valency classes
                    "undergoer-holding"? Or maybe "actor-holding"
                    because experiencers are sentient and therefore more
                    like agents?<br class="">
                  </div>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
              This example highlights another problem with these terms,
              namely the lack of clear criteria for assigning them when
              used outside of a well-defined theoretical framework.<br
                class="">
              <br class="">
              Best,</div>
            <div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
              Helvetica-Light; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal;
              font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
              letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent:
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              word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
              text-decoration: none;" class="">
              Van<br class="">
              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                <div class="">
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                    So for the stereotypical subdivision of
                    single-argument verbs ("active – inactive" in Klimov
                    1977), maybe "agentive – patientive" is the best
                    choice?</div>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                <div class="">
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                    Best,<br class="">
                    Martin<br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    <br class="">
                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 12.05.21 um 12:24
                      schrieb Christian Lehmann:<br class="">
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite"
                      cite="mid:39ec677e-81d1-0b25-0476-44bf7f217c44@Uni-Erfurt.De"
                      class="">
                      The only or direct actant of an intransitive verb
                      may be its actor (<i class="">run</i>) or its
                      undergoer (<i class="">die</i>). This may be taken
                      to be a feature of the verb's valency. There are
                      then two valency classes of intransitive verbs. I
                      know of the following terms for these:<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      active - inactive (Klimov)<br class="">
                      agentive - non-agentive<br class="">
                      unergative - unaccusative (Perlmutter)<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      All of these pairs have terminological or
                      conceptual problems (which I can name if desired).
                      I have therefore been looking for better terms. I
                      had called them<br class="">
                      actor-oriented - undergoer-oriented.<br class="">
                      However, I need the term 'oriented' in verbal
                      grammar in a different sense, so I have to replace
                      these. Currently, I call them<br class="">
                      actor-holding - undergoer-holding<br class="">
                      Not particularly elegant, are they?<br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Are there good terms on the linguistic market (of
                      the past two centuries) for what is meant by the
                      above? Or failing this, brilliant neologisms?<br
                        class="">
                      <br class="">
                      Grateful for suggestions,<br class="">
                      Christian<br class="">
                      <div class="moz-signature">--<span
                          class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
                          class="">
                        <p class="" style="font-size:
                          16.200000762939453px;">Prof. em. Dr. Christian
                          Lehmann<br class="">
                          Rudolfstr. 4<br class="">
                          99092 Erfurt<br class="">
                          <span class="" style="font-variant-ligatures:
                            normal; font-variant-numeric: normal;
                            font-variant-caps: small-caps;
                            font-variant-alternates: normal;
                            font-variant-position: normal;
                            font-variant-east-asian: normal;">Deutschland</span></p>
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                          14.399999618530273px;">
                          <tbody class="">
                            <tr class="">
                              <td class="">Tel.:</td>
                              <td class="">+49/361/2113417</td>
                            </tr>
                            <tr class="">
                              <td class="">E-Post:</td>
                              <td class=""><a
                                  class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                                  href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a></td>
                            </tr>
                            <tr class="">
                              <td class="">Web:</td>
                              <td class=""><a
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                  href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu/"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</a></td>
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                      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
                    </blockquote>
                    <br class="">
                    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Martin Haspelmath
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6
D-04103 Leipzig
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.shh.mpg.de/employees/42385/25522" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.shh.mpg.de/employees/42385/25522</a></pre>
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                    href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp"
                    class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a></div>
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        </blockquote>
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      <br class="">
      <br>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Martin Haspelmath
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6
D-04103 Leipzig
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.shh.mpg.de/employees/42385/25522">https://www.shh.mpg.de/employees/42385/25522</a></pre>
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