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    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">Dear all,<br>
      </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"><br>
      </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">It’s
        actually very tricky to (retro-)define “pronoun” and related
        terms in such a
        way that the definition corresponds to a large extent to the
        legacy uses. Below
        I propose some definitions of ten terms that are widely taken
        for granted. Can
        they be improved on? Four possible issues:</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">(i) There
        is no definition of the general term “pronoun” – I wouldn’t know
        how to define
        it, other than by saying that the class comprises personal,
        demonstrative,
        interrogative and indefinite pronouns.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">(ii)
        Sebastian is right that people often use “pronoun” elliptically
        to mean “personal
        pronoun”, but I find this usage confusing.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">(iii) Possessive
        pronouns are sometimes taken to be on a par with personal
        pronouns (especially
        in the well-known Indo-European languages), but I think they are
        best thought
        of as a special subtype of personal pronouns.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">(iv) “Pronouns”
        are often taken to be “noun-like” (because of the etymology of
        “pro-noun”), but
        I include interrogative adverbs like “when” and demonstrative
        adverbs like “there”
        (following widespread usage, also in my 1997 book “Indefinite
        pronouns”).</span></p>
    <br>
    Best,<br>
    Martin
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    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 09.07.21 um 11:29 schrieb Sebastian
      Nordhoff:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:bb142fe0-8e28-5376-8450-1be735a16b61@glottotopia.de">
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Dear all,
I think it is useful to have a look at the context in which "personal
pronoun" is used. There is an opposition to "possessive pronoun",
"reflexive pronoun" etc. So "personal pronoun" is the kind of pronoun
which is not possessive, which is not reflexive and so on.

If only "pronoun" is used, without further qualification, normally
"personal pronoun" is intended. If someone says "The pronouns of
language X and language Y are similar", the standard interpretation
would be that this refers to personal pronouns, rather than to reflexive
pronouns or the like.

Sometimes it is important to clearly state that you are not interested
in possessive/reflexive/interrogative pronouns. In those cases "personal
pronoun" is used. I see this as a shorthand for "subject/object pronoun".

Obviously, there are languages with very neat 2x3 paradigms, and there
are languages where the paradigms are fuzzy at the edges and you get kin
terms for reference and various politeness effects.

If one sees "personal pronoun" as "subject/object pronoun", the question
of whether a given form (eg in Korean) is actually third person becomes
moot.

So, the fact that we call a certain set of items "personal pronouns" is
probably due to a) opposition to other categories and b) tradition. It
should not be taken to imply that the category of "person" plays any
role in there. (After all, possessive pronouns also encode person, but
AFAICS they are normally not considered personal pronouns).
Best wishes
Sebastian</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
          lang="EN-US">11
          proposed definitions</span></u></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">A <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">possessive
          pronoun </b>(or adpossessive
        pronoun) is a personal pronoun that is used in adnominal
        possessive function.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">A <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">personal
          pronoun</b> is (i) a locuphoric form
        or (ii) an anaphoric form that is not a noun and that can be
        used in a complement
        clause coreferentially with a matrix argument.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">A
        locuphoric form (= a locuphor) is a form that denotes the
        speaker/producer or
        the hearer/comprehender speech role.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">An <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">anaphoric
          form </b>(or anaphoric pronoun)
        is a form that is primarily used for anaphoric reference.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">A <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">demonstrative
          (form)</b> is a form that can
        be used to direct the interlocutors’ joint focus of attention to
        entities in
        the discourse situation.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">A <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">demonstrative
          determiner</b> is a
        demonstrative that fulfills its function by occurring next to a
        noun in a nominal
        expression.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">A <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">demonstrative
          pronoun</b> is a demonstrative
        that forms a nominal or adverbial expression by itself without a
        noun.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">An <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">interrogative
          (form)</b> is a form that can
        be used to specify the open parameter in a constituent question.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">An <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">interrogative
          determiner</b> is an
        interrogative that fulfills its function by occurring next to a
        noun in a nominal
        expression.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">An <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">interrogative
          pronoun </b>is an
        interrogative that forms a nominal or adverbial expression by
        itself without a
        noun.</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US">A <b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">reflexive
          pronoun </b>is an anaphoric form
        that signals coreference with an antecedent in the same clause
        and that forms a
        nominal by itself (cf. Haspelmath 2021).</span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"
        lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:bb142fe0-8e28-5376-8450-1be735a16b61@glottotopia.de">
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">



    __ __

    *From:*Lingtyp <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"><mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a>> *On Behalf Of
    *Martin Haspelmath
    *Sent:* Wednesday, July 07, 2021 6:13 AM
    *To:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a>
    *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] Definition of “personal pronoun"____

    __ __

    Here's a new version of the definition that addresses Ian's point
    about Korean:

    "A personal pronoun is a form that (i) denotes a speech role
    (speaker/producer and/or hearer/comprehender) OR that is an
    anaphoric form which does not contain a noun AND (ii) that can be
    used in a complement clause coreferentially with a matrix clause
    argument."

    By saying "anaphoric form *that does not contain a noun*", we
    exclude the Korean case where 'brother' can be used coreferentially.
    Maybe one should add "ordinary noun" or "a noun that can be used
    indefinitely", because someone might claim, for example, that
    Spanish "usted" is still a noun (e.g. because it has the noun-like
    plural "usted-es").

    Guillaume Segerer remarked that "pronoun" implies that it is not a
    noun, but my proposed definition of "personal pronoun" does not say
    that a personal pronoun is "a kind of pronoun", because I don't know
    how to define "pronoun" (with such traditional terms, an extensional
    definition is often all we can give, e.g. "/pronoun/ is a cover term
    for /personal pronoun/, /interrogative pronoun/, ...")

    Re Mira's point about deictic uses of 3rd-person personal pronouns:
    I would say that this is not definitional – if a 3rd-person form
    cannot be used anaphorically, it will not be called "personal
    pronoun". But of course, personal pronouns often have other uses as
    well in particular languages. Comparative concepts rarely map
    perfectly onto language-particular categories.

    Guillaume also mentions person indexes (which are often included in
    personal pronoun charts), and this led me to look again at what I
    said in my 2013 paper about person indexes: I distinguish between
    cross-indexes, gramm-indexes, and pro-indexes, and the latter are
    actually included in "pronoun" (contrasting with "free pronouns").
    So I now say that "a personal pronoun is a form that..." (not "a
    personal pronoun is a free form that...").

    Best,
    Martin


    ____

    Am 06.07.21 um 20:48 schrieb Mira Ariel:____

        But what about (not so common, but attested) deictic references
        (first-mention) to 3^rd person using "personal pronouns"?____

         ____

        Mira____

         ____

        *From:*Lingtyp [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"><mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a>] *On Behalf
        Of *Martin Haspelmath
        *Sent:* Tuesday, July 6, 2021 1:48 AM
        *To:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a>
        *Subject:* Re: [Lingtyp] Definition of “personal pronoun"____

         ____

        Maybe the following will work:

        "A personal pronoun is a free form that (i) denotes a speech
        role (speaker/producer and/or hearer/comprehender) OR that is
        used as an anaphoric form AND (ii) that can be used in a
        complement clause coreferentially with a matrix clause argument."

        This is a disjunctive definition that brings together locuphoric
        forms ('I', 'we', 'you') and 3rd-person anaphoric (or
        "endophoric") forms, following the Western tradition (but not
        following any kind of compelling logic).

        It seems that personal pronouns need to be delimited from three
        types of somewhat doubtful forms:

        – person indexes (I do not include bound forms under "personal
        pronoun" here, following my 2013 paper on person indexes:
        <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://zenodo.org/record/1294059">https://zenodo.org/record/1294059</a>
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fzenodo.org%2Frecord%2F1294059&data=04%7C01%7Cedith%40uwm.edu%7Cfcf0475684e1463b39ba08d941382d63%7C0bca7ac3fcb64efd89eb6de97603cf21%7C0%7C0%7C637612532579177572%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=RbFRPnwDeMNZBZ6rSsbcgAFVtnzCtCLFLvJhSRf2Meg%3D&reserved=0"><https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fzenodo.org%2Frecord%2F1294059&data=04%7C01%7Cedith%40uwm.edu%7Cfcf0475684e1463b39ba08d941382d63%7C0bca7ac3fcb64efd89eb6de97603cf21%7C0%7C0%7C637612532579177572%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=RbFRPnwDeMNZBZ6rSsbcgAFVtnzCtCLFLvJhSRf2Meg%3D&reserved=0></a>)
        – demonstratives
        – titles like "Your Majesty"

        I think that if a language has a form like "that-one" or
        "your-majesty" that can be used coreferentially in a complement
        clause, one will regard it as a personal pronoun:

        (a) "My sister(i) thinks that that-one(i) has an answer."
        (b) "Does your-majesty(i) think that your-majesty(i) has an answer?"

        In German, the polite second-person pronoun "Sie" (which has
        Third-Person syntax) can be used in (b), but the demonstrative
        "die" can hardly be used in (a), so it would not count as a
        personal pronoun (yet). However, in Hindi-Urdu and Mongolian, as
        mentioned by Ian, the demonstrative can be used in this way (I
        think), so it would count as a personal pronoun.

        I don't think we need the general notion of "person" to define
        "personal pronoun". Wikipedia's current definition is therefore
        quite confusing (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_pronoun">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_pronoun</a>
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        Thanks for this interesting challenge, Ian! It seems to me that
        quite a few of our traditional terms CAN be defined, but their
        definitions are not obvious at all (and the textbooks don't
        usually give the definitions).

        Best,
        Martin____

        Am 06.07.21 um 06:53 schrieb JOO, Ian [Student]:____

            Dear typologists,

            I’m having a hard time trying to find a definition of a
            “personal pronoun”.
            One definition is that a personal pronoun refers to a
            literal person, a human being. But then again, non-human
            pronouns like English /it/ are also frequently included as a
            personal pronoun.
            Another definition seems to be that “personal” refers to a
            grammatical person and not a literal person.
            Thus, /it/ refers to the (non-human) 3rd person, therefore
            it is a personal pronoun.
            But then again, demonstratives, interrogative, and
            indefinite pronouns also refer to the 3rd person.
            (This /is/ a book, who /is /that man,
            anything /is /possible) Then are they also personal pronouns?
            What’s the clearest definition of a personal pronoun, if
            any?____


            From Hong Kong, ____

            Ian____

            ____


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        ____

        -- ____

        Martin Haspelmath____

        Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology____

        Deutscher Platz 6____

        D-04103 Leipzig____

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    ____

    -- ____

    Martin Haspelmath____

    Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology____

    Deutscher Platz 6____

    D-04103 Leipzig____

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</pre>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Martin Haspelmath
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6
D-04103 Leipzig
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.shh.mpg.de/employees/42385/25522">https://www.shh.mpg.de/employees/42385/25522</a></pre>
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