<div dir="ltr">There are different types of time precedence (even if not expressed by '<i>before</i>-constructions').<div>Consider : <i>As soon as Mary arrived, John left </i>(=immediate precedence, often implying consequence)</div><div><i>When John realized his idea was wrong, he gave it up </i>(the sentence does not entail immediate consequence)</div><div><i>After having composed his early symphonies, Mahler returned to Vienna in 1897 </i>(Mahler could have composed his early symphonies in 1887: the 'before' remains undefined)</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Paolo</div></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br> <table style="border-top:1px solid #d3d4de">
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<a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno lun 19 lug 2021 alle ore 02:41 Jesus Francisco Olguin Martinez <<a href="mailto:olguinmartinez@ucsb.edu">olguinmartinez@ucsb.edu</a>> ha scritto:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">I should probably mention the following aspect.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><div class="gmail_default"><font face="georgia, serif">Consider the following constructions taken from Cristofaro (2003: 62):</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="georgia, serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><div class="gmail_default"><font face="georgia, serif">(1) a. Mozart died [before finishing his Requiem Mass]</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="georgia, serif">b. Mahler composed his early symphonies [before returning to Vienna in 1897]</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="georgia, serif">c. [Before going back to my book], I have to turn in this paper</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="georgia, serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font face="georgia, serif">In (1a) the dependent situation (finishing the Requiem Mass) never takes place, while in (1b) the dependent situation (returning to Vienna) actually takes place after</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font face="georgia, serif">the main one. Finally, (1c) does not exclude the possibility that the dependent situation (going back to the book) may take place at some point in time (Cristofaro 2003: 62)<br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font face="georgia, serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font face="georgia, serif">English only has one clause-linking device to express the situations described above. However, other languages have specialized clause-linking devices that distinguish the situations shown in (1a-c). </font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font face="georgia, serif">I hope this makes sense. </font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font face="georgia, serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><font face="georgia, serif">Best, </font></div><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 5:33 PM MM Jocelyne Fernandez <<a href="mailto:mmjocelynefern@gmail.com" target="_blank">mmjocelynefern@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hi,</p>
<p>John actually left because both verbs are simple action verbs in
the past.</p>
<p>But with for instance</p>
<p>– John was anxious before leaving,</p>
<p>the implication is not so evident any more.</p>
<p>MMJocelyne Fernandez<br>
</p>
<div>Le 19/07/2021 à 01:46, David Gil a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Hi,<br>
</p>
<p>Am I missing something here? Consider</p>
<p>(1) John ate before leaving<br>
(2) John ate before he left</p>
<p>Surely in both of the above sentences, there IS an implication
that John actually left.<br>
<br>
In terms of whether the two states of affairs take place, I
don't see a difference between the above and the following:</p>
<p>(3) John ate and then left</p>
<p>David</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 19/07/2021 02:01, Jesus Francisco
Olguin Martinez wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="georgia, serif">Dear
all,</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="georgia, serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="georgia, serif"><span style="text-align:justify">Temporal construction
expressing precedence (a.k.a. <i>before</i>-constructions)
consist of a sequence of two clauses in <a name="m_2449251343440203499_m_1801649981740624835__Hlk77435152">which
the main state of affairs happens before the
dependent state of affairs </a>(Kortmann 1997:
84-85; Cristofaro 2003: 159). </span><span style="text-align:justify">The dependent state of
affairs in a <i>before</i>-construction may take
place at a subsequent time point. However, there is
no implication about whether or not it actually
takes place (Cristofaro 2003: 62). </span></font><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">In my
sample, there are various languages that use a
specialized clause-linkage device to explicitly indicate
that the dependent state of affairs in a <i>before</i>-construction
actually takes place. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">I
would be interested in hearing more about languages that
have a clause-linking device that explicitly indicate
this type of information. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Thank
you very much in advance.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Best,</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(33,33,33);margin:0px"><font face="AR CENA"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Jesús
Olguín Martínez</span></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR CENA">Ph.D.
Candidate, Dept. of Linguistics</font></span></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR CENA"><i>University
of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB)</i></font></span></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR CENA"><a href="http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jes%C3%BAs-olgu%C3%ADn-mart%C3%ADnez" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jesús-olguín-martínez</a></font></span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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</blockquote>
<pre cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
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</blockquote>
<div>-- <br>
Prof. M.M.Jocelyne FERNANDEZ-VEST
CNRS & Université Sorbonne Nouvelle</div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(33,33,33);margin:0px"><font face="AR CENA"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Jesús Olguín Martínez</span></font></div><div style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Segoe UI","Segoe WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:15px;margin:0px"><font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR CENA">Ph.D. Candidate, Dept. of Linguistics</font></span></font></div><div style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Segoe UI","Segoe WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:15px;margin:0px"><font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR CENA"><i>University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB)</i></font></span></font></div><div style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:wf_segoe-ui_normal,"Segoe UI","Segoe WP",Tahoma,Arial,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:15px;margin:0px"><font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt"><font face="AR CENA"><a href="http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jes%C3%BAs-olgu%C3%ADn-mart%C3%ADnez" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/people/jesús-olguín-martínez</a></font></span></font></div></div></div>
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