<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Prof. Dahl,<div class="">Thanks for the correction! I see now where I misunderstood something you had written.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">All the best,</div><div class="">Randy<br class=""><div class="">
<div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">-----</span><div style="orphans: 2; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; text-align: -webkit-auto; border-spacing: 0px;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class=""><b class="">Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA</b> （羅</span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white; font-size: 13px;" class=""><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Song">仁地</font></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); background-color: white;" class="">）</span></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="background-color: white;" class=""><font color="#222222" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2" class="">Professor of Linguistics, with courtesy appointment in Chinese, School of Humanities </font></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13.333333015441895px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Nanyang Technological University</span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" class=""><span style="background-color: white;" class="">HSS-03-45, 48 Nanyang Avenue </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13.333333015441895px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-align: -webkit-auto;" class="">| </span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" class=""><span style="background-color: white;" class="">Singapore 639818</span></span></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="text-align: -webkit-auto; background-color: white; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" class=""><a href="http://randylapolla.info/" class="">http://randylapolla.info/</a></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="text-align: -webkit-auto; background-color: white; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" class="">(<a href="http://personal.ntu.edu.sg/randylapolla" class="">personal.ntu.edu.sg/randylapolla</a>)</span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" class=""><span style="background-color: white;" class="">Most recent books:</span></span></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);" class=""><span style="background-color: white;" class=""><i class="">The Sino-Tibetan Languages, 2nd Edition (</i>2017)</span></span></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="background-color: white;" class=""><font color="#222222" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2" class=""><a href="https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324" class="">https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324</a></font></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="background-color: white;" class=""><font color="#222222" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2" class=""><i class="">Sino-Tibetan Linguistics </i>(2018)</font></span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><span class="" style="background-color: white;"><font color="#222222" face="Arial, sans-serif" size="2" class=""><a href="https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397" class="" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);">https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397</a></font></span></div></div></div></span></span></div></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 27 Jul 2021, at 7:25 PM, Östen Dahl <<a href="mailto:oesten@ling.su.se" class="">oesten@ling.su.se</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class="">”t</span>he way it is defined it is often said to be limited to stative predicates<span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class="">”… That’s an interesting
claim, given that the works by Olsson, Wälchli, and myself that Bastian refers to certainly do not restrict it to statives.
<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class="">Best,<br class="">
Östen<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span lang="SV" class="">Från:</span></b><span lang="SV" class=""> Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
<b class="">För </b>Randy LaPolla<br class="">
<b class="">Skickat:</b> den 27 juli 2021 12:58<br class="">
<b class="">Till:</b> Bastian Persohn <<a href="mailto:persohn.linguistics@gmail.com" class="">persohn.linguistics@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Kopia:</b> LINGTYP <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Ämne:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Literature on 'already' > causal<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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</div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">Yes, Bastian, but I don’t use that term, as the way it is defined it is often said to be limited to stative predicates. In the languages I am familiar with they can occur with any sort of predicate, e.g. in Tagalog and Chinese.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">All the best,<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Randy<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Jul 27, 2021, at 3:44 PM, Bastian Persohn <<a href="mailto:persohn.linguistics@gmail.com" class="">persohn.linguistics@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Dear Randy,<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Are you referring to those markers often called <i class="">iamatives</i>, following Olsson’s MA thesis and subsequent work by Dahl and Wälchli?<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">I’d include those under the label of 'already‘, but yes, that’s something I could have stated more clearly.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Bestm<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Am 27.07.2021 um 07:07 schrieb Randy LaPolla <<a href="mailto:randy.lapolla@gmail.com" class="">randy.lapolla@gmail.com</a>>:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Dear Bastian,<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Just a suggestion: Rather than limiting your search to lexical items that mean ‘already’, you might expand it to include change of state aspect markers, which are commonly translated as ‘already’, and possibly even perfective aspect marking
in some languages. <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">All the best,<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Randy<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class="">Randy J. LaPolla, PhD FAHA</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class=""> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#222222;background:white" class="">（羅</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#222222;background:white" class="">仁地</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Gothic";color:#222222;background:white" class="">）</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class="">Professor of Linguistics, with courtesy appointment in Chinese, School of Humanities </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class="">Nanyang Technological University</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class="">HSS-03-45, 48 Nanyang Avenue </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class="">| <span class="apple-style-span">Singapore
639818</span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class=""><a href="http://randylapolla.info/" class="">http://randylapolla.info/</a></span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class="">(<a href="http://personal.ntu.edu.sg/randylapolla" class="">personal.ntu.edu.sg/randylapolla</a>)</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class="">Most recent books:</span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><i class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class="">The Sino-Tibetan Languages, 2nd Edition (</span></i></span><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class="">2017)</span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class=""><a href="https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324" class="">https://www.routledge.com/The-Sino-Tibetan-Languages-2nd-Edition/LaPolla-Thurgood/p/book/9781138783324</a></span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><i class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class="">Sino-Tibetan Linguistics </span></i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class="">(2018)</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white" class=""><a href="https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397" class=""><span style="color:#954F72" class="">https://www.routledge.com/Sino-Tibetan-Linguistics/LaPolla/p/book/9780415577397</span></a></span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On 26 Jul 2021, at 11:11 PM, Bastian Persohn <<a href="mailto:persohn.linguistics@gmail.com" class="">persohn.linguistics@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Dear lingtyp list members,<br class="">
<br class="">
Do you know of any literature that discusses the development of causal clause markers from (constructions involving) expressions for ‚already‘, especially works that discuss the underlying semanto-pragmatic motivation?<br class="">
<br class="">
The type of construction I have in mind is found, for instance, in Spanish and Italian (1, 2) and has also been described for the Arabic variety of the Medina of Tunis (3). German (<i class="">Wo du
<u class="">schon</u> da bist, bleib doch zum Abendesse</i>n ‚As you’re here (already), why don’t you stay for supper?) and Bosnian-Serbian-Croatian (<i class="">Kad si
<u class="">već</u> ovdje, zašto ne ostaneš na večeri</i> ‚dto‘) could be counted as additional examples.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">(1) <i class=""><u class=""><span lang="ES" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class="">Ya que</span></u></i><i class=""><span lang="ES" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class=""> tu desgracia no tiene remedio, llévala con paciencia</span></i><span lang="ES" class="">.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES" class="">Already SUBORD your misfortune NEG has remedy wear_it with patience</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class="">‘Given that there’s no remedy against your misfortune, wear it with patience</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">(RAE 2009)<br class="">
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" class="">(2)</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class=""> </span><i class=""><u class=""><span lang="ES" class="">Giacché / già
</span></u></i><i class=""><span lang="ES" class="">che lo sai, perché me lo chiedi</span></i><span lang="ES" class="">?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="ES" class="">CAUSAL / already SUBORD it you_know why me it you_ask</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">‘Since you know it, why do you ask me?’ (M-H & Strudsholm 2008: 494)<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">(3) <i class=""><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">Xān-n-əmši᷄-u ʕala sāq-î-na
<b class="">báʕda</b> ma-hî-š baʕîda</span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">HORT-1-go.IPFV-PL on leg-PL-1PL already NEG-3SG.F-neg far:F<br class="">
‘Wir wollen zu Fuß hingehen da es doch/ja nicht weit ist’ [Let’s go there by foot, as it’s really not far] (Singer 1984)</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">I look forward to your replies!</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">Best,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" class="">Bastian</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br class="">
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<a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class="">
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