<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Hi David,<div>That is quite interesting. Singlish is historically basically Southern Min Chinese spoken with English words, and Southern Min has a tone sandhi pattern that is usually analyzed as having only the last syllable in a phrase as the citation tone, and all of the preceding tones in the sandhi tones, a pattern that has some similarity with the one you mentioned. I wonder if there is a connection. </div><div><br></div><div>Randy<br><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from my phone</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On 24 Aug 2021, at 11:52 PM, David Gil <gil@shh.mpg.de> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Dear Ratanon and all,<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Oddly, some non-tonal languages of Southeast Asia seem to exhibit
a mirror-image pattern to the one you describe; there it seems as
though the sentence-final particles are the only forms that ARE
tonal, though whether this is really lexical tone as opposed to
intonation remains an open question. This has been argued for
Singlish (colloquial Singaporean English), and I think could
plausibly also be argued for some varieties of Malay.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I suspect that some languages of the Sough Halmahera West New
Guinea subgroup of Austronesian might also fit the bill, albeit in
different ways. For Moor, David Kamholz has argued that lexical
tone only shows up on the final syllable of the phonological
phrase, all other syllables remaining toneless. And for Roon, I
have described a tonal distinction in a single inflectional
paradigm involving inalienable possession, while all the rest of
the language, way over 99% of it, lacks lexical tone.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>All of the above examples are thus perhaps more appropriately
described as "inherently tonal morphemes in non-tone languages"
...<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>David<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24/08/2021 15:39, Ratanon
Jiamsundutsadee wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:SI2PR02MB503695DD87084CD1A2604968DFC59@SI2PR02MB5036.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-family: "Franklin Gothic Demi",
"Avenir Next Condensed Demi Bold", sans-serif;
font-size: 11pt;">Dear all,</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-family: "Franklin Gothic Demi",
"Avenir Next Condensed Demi Bold", sans-serif;
font-size: 11pt;">Is anyone familiar with tone languages which
are analyzed to have "toneless" morphemes, i.e. not specified
for tone in the underlying representation?</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-family: "Franklin Gothic Demi",
"Avenir Next Condensed Demi Bold", sans-serif;
font-size: 11pt;">For example, some final particles in Thai
have been analyzed to be inherently toneless, exhibiting their
surface pitch contour only due to their linkage to
intonational-phrase-final boundary tones.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-family: "Franklin Gothic Demi",
"Avenir Next Condensed Demi Bold", sans-serif;
font-size: 11pt;">(1) rāw cʰɔ̂ɔp tàw
<span style="background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);display:inline !important">kʰa</span>-L%</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-family: "Franklin Gothic Demi",
"Avenir Next Condensed Demi Bold", sans-serif;
font-size: 11pt;"> 1SG like turtle FP</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-family: "Franklin Gothic Demi",
"Avenir Next Condensed Demi Bold", sans-serif;
font-size: 11pt;"> 'I like turtles.' (/<span style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline
!important">kʰa/ = formal, female speaking)</span></span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-family: "Franklin Gothic Demi",
"Avenir Next Condensed Demi Bold", sans-serif;
font-size: 11pt;">(2) nâarák máj kʰa-H%</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-family: "Franklin Gothic Demi",
"Avenir Next Condensed Demi Bold", sans-serif;
font-size: 11pt;"> cute FP FP</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-family: "Franklin Gothic Demi",
"Avenir Next Condensed Demi Bold", sans-serif;
font-size: 11pt;"> 'Aren't they cute?' (/<span style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline
!important">máj</span>/ = neutral interrogative; <span style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline
!important">/</span><span style="margin:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);display:inline !important">kʰa/ = formal, female
speaking)</span></span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-family: "Franklin Gothic Demi",
"Avenir Next Condensed Demi Bold", sans-serif;
font-size: 11pt;"><span style="margin:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);display:inline !important"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="font-family: "Franklin Gothic Demi",
"Avenir Next Condensed Demi Bold", sans-serif;
font-size: 11pt;"><span style="margin: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline !important; font-family:
"Franklin Gothic Demi", "Avenir Next
Condensed Demi Bold", sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Traditionally,
/kʰá/ and /kʰâ~kʰà/ would be treated as fully specified
for tone and distinct from each other. </span></span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Franklin Gothic
Demi", "Avenir Next Condensed Demi Bold",
sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">So far, I have encountered
somewhat similar accounts (of certain morphemes, particularly
final particles, which are said to be tonally unspecified) in
Mandarin and Cantonese.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Franklin
Gothic Demi", "Avenir Next Condensed Demi
Bold", sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Franklin
Gothic Demi", "Avenir Next Condensed Demi
Bold", sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Any help would be
greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Franklin
Gothic Demi", "Avenir Next Condensed Demi
Bold", sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Franklin
Gothic Demi", "Avenir Next Condensed Demi
Bold", sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Kind regards,</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Franklin
Gothic Demi", "Avenir Next Condensed Demi
Bold", sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Ratanon
Jiamsundutsadee</span></div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
</pre>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Lingtyp mailing list</span><br><span>Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</span><br><span>http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>