<div dir="ltr">Dear Farhad,<div><br></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(5,5,5)">My point is this: </span><span style="color:rgb(5,5,5);font-family:Arial,sans-serif">The goal in your example (1) is only marked once, by the preposition
‘until, while RA signals something else. Its general function in Persian has to
do with the expression of some sort of topicality/identifiability on various
grammatical functions (objects, some obliques, some external possessors and
left-dislocated topics including PPs). So (1) is not unlike its English equivalent
‘to the house’, where the preposition ‘to’ marks the goal and ‘the’ marks
definiteness.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(5,5,5)">How the information structural meaning of RA interacts with boundedness is
a separate question, but this does not occur in all cases where RA is used.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(5,5,5)"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(5,5,5)">Best,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;line-height:normal;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(5,5,5)">Irina</span></p></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial">Prof. Irina Nikolaeva, FBA, MAE</p><p style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial"><a href="https://www.soas.ac.uk/staff/staff31522.php" target="_blank">https://www.soas.ac.uk/staff/staff31522.php<br></a></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 23:29, Farhad Moezzipour <<a href="mailto:fmp59i@gmail.com">fmp59i@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Dear Prof. Nikolaeva and Bohnemeyer (and the other members) </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Yes, you are absolutely correct. RA has been said to serve
different functions when it appears on direct objects and dislocated NPs. In the
given <i>TA-RA</i> example (example 1 in my previous email), the referent of <i>xune</i> ‘house’, I assume,
should be ‘identifiable’ for the hearer; hence a topic in the information
structure of the sentence. It might be the case that in example (2) where <i>xune
</i>‘house’ appears without RA, it plays a focus role as it is an argument-adjunct
(using RRG terminology), bearing in mind adjuncts express foci (If I am
correct). But this is pragmatics! I believe, as Prof. Bohnemeyer mentioned, that
RA in example (1) contributes somehow to the semantics of the sentence in a way
that it signals/indicates/marks (I am not sure) the bounded path, which is
missing in example (2). The relation of RA with boundedness can be supported by
the fact that it appears on quantized direct objects of consumption verbs, as
in (3). </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">(3) <i>Man sib=o xord-æm</i>. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> 1SG apple=POSP eat.PST-1SG</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> ‘I ate the (whole)
apple.’ </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Intuitively, example (4) is infelicitous because RA entails
the entire traversal of the path. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">(4) *<i>mæn kuh=o bala ræft-am væli be qolle-e</i><i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%">š næ-res-id-æm.</span></i><i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%"> </span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%"> </span></i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%"> 1SG mountain=POSP up go.PST-1SG but to summit=3SG NEG-reach-PST-1SG</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%"> ‘I climbed the mountain but did not reach
the summit.’ </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%">Regards,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt;line-height:107%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%">Farhad </span></p></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 12:59 AM Irina Nikolaeva <<a href="mailto:in3@soas.ac.uk" target="_blank">in3@soas.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear Farhad,<div><br></div><div>I am not sure the function or RA here is to mark the goal argument per se (hence no double marking). RA can occur on a variety of grammatical functions, and many people have argued that its function is to mark specificity/topicality/identifiability or the like.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Irina</div><div><br></div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial">Prof. Irina Nikolaeva, FBA, MAE</p><p style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial"><a href="https://www.soas.ac.uk/staff/staff31522.php" target="_blank">https://www.soas.ac.uk/staff/staff31522.php<br></a></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 14:52, Farhad Moezzipour <<a href="mailto:fmp59i@gmail.com" target="_blank">fmp59i@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear all,<div><br></div><div>Is anyone aware of a language where the goal in a motion event is doubly marked? This happens in colloquial Persian:</div><div><br></div><div>(1) <i>Ta xune=ro tu 20 </i>dæqiqe<i> dæv-id-æm</i>.</div><div> until house=POSP in 20 minute run-PST-1SG</div><div> 'I ran the distance to the house in 20 minutes.' </div><div><br></div><div>The goal is marked once by the preposition and once with the postposition RA, which is basically an object maker in Modern Persian. The given example is also possible without RA, as in (2). </div><div><br></div><div>(2) <i>Ta xune 20 </i>dæqiqe<i> dæv-id-æm</i>.</div><div> until house 20 minute run-PST-1SG </div><div> 'I ran toward the house for 20 minutes.' </div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Farhad</div><div><br></div><div> </div><div><br><div> </div></div></div>
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