
<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Alex and Jussi,<div class="">I think the ‘mesh of the net’ is also relevant here. Tagalog <i class="">mata</i> and Chinese 目 <i class="">mù</i> both can refer to the mesh of a net, and in Chinese the openings in the net can be enumerated using ‘eye’, e.g. </div><div class="">60目的筛</div><div class="">60 eye ASSOC strainer/sieve</div><div class="">‘a sieve with 60 holes’</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Randy<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 15 Oct 2021, at 6:36 AM, Alex Francois <<a href="mailto:alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com" class="">alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">dear Jussi,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Austronesian languages also tend to show rich polysemies around the noun for 'eye'.  </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">The word reconstructs as an etymon *mata in PMP (Proto Malayo Polynesian), and *maCa in Proto Austronesian.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Robert Blust's online <i class="">Austronesian Comparative Dictionary</i> (ACD) has a rich entry for PMP *mata :</div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><font size="1" class=""><a href="https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-s_m.htm#30830" target="_blank" class="">https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-s_m.htm#30830</a></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br class=""></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px" class=""><div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, sans-serif" class="">PMP  </font><font face="verdana, sans-serif" class="">*</font><b class=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif" class="">mata</font>  </b><font face="arial, sans-serif" class="">“eye, face, focal point, center or most prominent part; hole, aperture; doorway, window; budding part of plant; ‘eye’ of coconut; knot in wood; sun; core of a boil; blade of a knife; to awaken; operculum of a snail; mesh of a net; eye of a needle; noose of a trap; hearth; direction of the wind; head of a river; spring, source; lid, cover”</font></div></blockquote><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">While this poly-gloss does not include "singulative marker" as such, some of the examples cited by Blust do include such meanings in certain modern Austronesian languages:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><table align="center" width="90%" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: rgb(255, 250, 240);" class=""><tbody class=""><tr valign="top" class=""><td style="font-size:0.9em;color:green;width:165.25px" class=""><a href="https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-l_S.htm#Sangir" style="color:navy;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-weight:bold;text-decoration-line:none;font-size:11pt" target="_blank" class=""><span style="font-size:1em;color:green;font-weight:normal" class="">Karo Batak</span></a></td><td style="text-align:left;color:darkblue;font-size:1em;padding-left:6px;width:202.07px" class="">mata</td><td class="">eye<br class=""></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><table align="center" width="90%" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: rgb(255, 250, 240);" class=""><tbody class=""><tr valign="top" class=""><td style="font-size:0.9em;color:green;width:165.25px" class=""></td><td style="color:darkblue;font-size:1em;padding-left:6px;width:202.07px" class="">ŋke-mata<br class=""></td><td class=""><u class="">counting classifier</u> for counting grains of rice</td></tr></tbody></table></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><table align="center" width="90%" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: rgb(255, 250, 240);" class=""><tbody class=""><tr valign="top" class=""><td style="font-size:0.9em;color:green;width:165.25px" class=""><a href="https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-l_S.htm#Sangir" style="color:navy;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-weight:bold;text-decoration-line:none;font-size:11pt" target="_blank" class=""><span style="font-size:1em;color:green;font-weight:normal" class="">Sangir</span></a><br class=""></td><td style="color:darkblue;font-size:1em;padding-left:6px;width:202.07px" class="">mata</td><td class="">eye; counting <u class="">classifier used in counting</u> snares and fishhooks<br class=""></td></tr><tr valign="top" class=""><td style="font-size:0.9em;color:green;width:165.25px" class=""><a href="https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-l_A.htm#Arosi" style="color:navy;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-weight:bold;text-decoration-line:none;font-size:11pt" target="_blank" class=""><span style="font-size:1em;color:green;font-weight:normal" class="">Arosi</span></a></td><td style="color:darkblue;font-size:1em;padding-left:6px;width:202.07px" class="">maa</td><td class="">eye; face; hole, opening, mesh of a net, gate; edge, point, brim; front of a person or house; <u class="">numerical unit in counting</u> fish hooks, needles, stakes, flints, fishing rods, houses, traps, slings, armlets and matches; a spot, stain, crystal in rock, a groove for rubbing fire in a soft stick; to look at, stare; a circle; to lead</td></tr></tbody></table></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><table align="center" width="90%" style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: rgb(255, 250, 240);" class=""><tbody class=""><tr valign="top" class=""><td style="font-size:0.9em;color:green;width:165.25px" class=""><a href="https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-l_F.htm#Futunan" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-weight:bold;color:navy;text-decoration-line:none;font-size:11pt" target="_blank" class=""><span style="font-size:1em;color:green;font-weight:normal" class="">Futunan</span></a></td><td style="color:darkblue;font-size:1em;padding-left:6px;width:202.07px" class="">mata</td><td class="">face (<i class="">plural</i>); eye; <u class="">numeral classifier for counting</u> fish; cutting edge, blade; front of something, in front</td></tr></tbody></table></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style=""><ul style="" class=""><li style="" class=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif" size="1" class="">Blust, Robert. 2021. <i style="" class="">Online Austronesian Comparative Dictionary (ACD)</i>. <br class="">Honolulu: University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa.<br class="">[<a href="https://www.trussel2.com/acd" class="">https://www.trussel2.com/acd</a>]<br class=""></font></li></ul></div></blockquote><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Also, from my data on Vanuatu languages: </div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif" class="">Mwotlap</font><font face="tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> (an Austronesian language of Vanuatu) has a noun <i class="">mete</i> 'eye; opening+'… (<*mata) which functions as a </font><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif" class="">singulative marker with certain nouns:</span></div><div class="gmail_default"><ul class=""><li class=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif" class=""><i class="">vit</i> </font><font face="tahoma, sans-serif" class="">  “stars (in the night sky)”  →  </font><i class=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif" class=""><b class="">mete</b> vit </font></i><i style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif" class=""> </i><font face="tahoma, sans-serif" class="">“a star (taken individually)”</font></li></ul></div></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">best</div><div class=""><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif" class=""><font size="2" class="">Alex</font></span><hr style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 13.33px; font-style: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;" width="70" size="1" noshade="" align="left" class=""><p style="font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-serif" class=""><font size="2" class=""><span style="color:rgb(69,129,142)" class="">Alex François</span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></font></p><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif" class=""><font size="1" class=""><span style="text-decoration:none" class=""><a style="text-decoration:none" href="http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/" rel="noopener" target="_blank" class="">LaTTiCe</a> — <a title="ENS" style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="http://www.cnrs.fr/index.html" rel="noopener" target="_blank" class="">CNRS–</a><a title="ENS" style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094" rel="noopener" target="_blank" class="">ENS</a>–<a title="ENS" style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="http://www.univ-paris3.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp" rel="noopener" target="_blank" class="">Sorbonne nouvelle</a><br class=""></span><a style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="https://researchers.anu.edu.au/researchers/francois-a" rel="noopener" target="_blank" class="">Australian National University<br class=""></a><span style="text-decoration:none" class=""></span><span style="text-decoration:none" class=""><a style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="https://www.ae-info.org/ae/Member/Fran%C3%A7ois_Alexandre" rel="noopener" target="_blank" class="">Academia Europaea</a> – </span></font><font size="1" class=""><span style="text-decoration:none" class=""><font size="1" class=""><span style="text-decoration:none" class=""><a style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="https://cnrs.academia.edu/AlexFran%C3%A7ois" rel="noopener" target="_blank" class="">Academia.edu</a><br class=""></span></font></span></font></span><div class=""><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif" class=""><font size="1" class=""><span style="text-decoration:none" class=""><font size="1" class=""><span style="text-decoration:none" class=""> </span><span style="text-decoration:none" class=""></span></font></span><span style="text-decoration:none" class=""><a style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="http://alex.francois.online.fr/" rel="noopener" target="_blank" class="">Personal homepage</a><br class=""></span></font></span></div><div class=""><font size="1" class="">___________________</font><font size="1" class="">___________________</font><font size="1" class="">___</font><br class=""><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif" class=""><font size="1" class=""><span style="text-decoration:none" class=""></span></font></span></div></div></div></div><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 at 10:05, Randy J. LaPolla <<a href="mailto:randy.lapolla@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">randy.lapolla@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="">Dear Jussi,<div class="">In Chinese there are two words for ‘eye’, mù (目) and yǎn (眼)--the former is older than the latter--and both are used in ways relevant to what you are looking for:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The former is used for ’item’ of a larger whole, like in</div><div class="">目錄、書目、要目、條目、目次</div><div class="">mùlù, shùmù, yaōmù, tiáomu, mùcì</div><div class="">eye-record book-eye, important-eye, line-eye, eye-order</div><div class="">‘record of items’, ’table of contents’, ‘important points’, 'items in a text', ‘ordered list of items'</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The latter is used as a measure word for wells:</div><div class="">一眼井</div><div class="">yî yǎn jǐng</div><div class="">one eye well</div><div class="">‘one well’</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Hope this helps.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Randy</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">

<span style="font-size:15px" class="">——</span><br style="font-size:15px" class=""><span style="font-size:15px" class="">Professor Randy J. LaPolla（罗仁地), PhD FAHA </span><br style="font-size:15px" class=""><span style="font-size:15px" class="">Center for Language Sciences</span><br style="font-size:15px" class=""><span style="font-size:15px" class="">Institute for Advanced Studies in Humanities and Social Sciences</span><br style="font-size:15px" class=""><span style="font-size:15px" class="">Beijing Normal University, Zhuhai Campus</span><br style="font-size:15px" class=""><span style="font-size:15px" class="">A302, Muduo Building, #18 Jinfeng Road, Zhuhai City, China</span><br style="font-size:15px" class=""><br style="font-size:15px" class=""><div style="font-size:15px" class="">邮编：519000<br class="">广东省珠海市唐家湾镇金凤路18号木铎楼A302<br class="">北京师范大学珠海校区<br class="">人文和社会科学高等研究院<br class="">语言科学研究中心 </div>

</div>

<div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 14 Oct 2021, at 3:39 AM, Jussi Ylikoski <<a href="mailto:jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi" target="_blank" class="">jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class="">


<div dir="ltr" class="">

<div style="font-family:Tahoma,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt" class=""><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class="">Dear Colleagues,<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class="">In honor of World Sight Day (the second Thursday of October), I am looking for information about nouns denoting 'eye' being grammaticalized into singulative

 markers of some kind.<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class="">The best-known example might be Hungarian

<i class="">szem</i> 'eye', which is, however, generally and obviously better considered a kind of classifier among other classifiers. However, many cognates of

<i class="">szem</i> in the easternmost (Samoyed, Khanty and Mansi) and the northernmost (Saami) branches of Uralic appear to deserve to be characterized as some kind of singulative markers, as seen in the following North Saami compound-like expressions that could,

 in principle be reconstructed all the way to Proto-Uralic:<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class="">North Saami<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<i class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class="">čalbmi</span></i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class=""> 'eye'<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<i class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class="">varra-čalbmi</span></i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class=""> 'drop of blood' (~

 North Khanty <i class="">wŭr-sem</i> id.)<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<i class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class="">jiekŋa-čalbmi</span></i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class=""> 'particle of ice'

 (~ Hungarian <i class="">jég-szem</i> 'hailstone')<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<i class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class="">muorje-čalbmi</span></i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class=""> 'single berry'<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<i class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class="">vuokta-čalbmi</span></i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class=""> 'single hair (on

 a human head)'<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class="">Interestingly, similar 'eye' singulatives can also be found in the neighboring Ket (see Helimski's "<i class="">S</i>-singulatives in Ket" at <a href="https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.31826/jlr-2017-143-404/html" target="_blank" class="">https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.31826/jlr-2017-143-404/html</a>),

 but otherwise there seems to be little global information about the origins of singulative markers, and even less about potentially analogous singulatives based on 'eye' in particular.<u class=""></u><br class="">

<u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class=""><u class=""></u><br class="">

<u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class=""><u class=""></u>Anne Storch's (2014: 278) grammar of Luwo contains the solitary example

<i class="">wɔ́ŋ jɛ́n</i> [eye chicken:COLL] 'one chicken', though. I am also aware of the colexification of EYE, SEED, GRAIN etc., which looks like a natural route to singulatives (<a href="https://clics.clld.org/graphs/subgraph_1248" target="_blank" class="">https://clics.clld.org/graphs/subgraph_1248</a>).<br class="">

<u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class="">So I am wondering whether there are other similar 'eye' singulatives out there, in addition to Uralic and Yeniseian (and Luwo)?<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class="">Best regards,<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;line-height:115%" class="">

<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI" class="">Jussi<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>

<br class="">

</div>

</div>


_______________________________________________<br class="">Lingtyp mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class=""><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">

Lingtyp mailing list<br class="">

<a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class="">

<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br class="">

</blockquote></div>

_______________________________________________<br class="">Lingtyp mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>