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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI">Dear all,<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI">Thank you to Randy, Alex and Jess for your help, and thanks also to those who have replied me off-list! It appears that my question
 was not banal, since there are obvious parallels to my own data here and there, but definitely not all over, and apparently nothing fully analogous to the 'eye' singulatives (or individualizers) in Uralic and Yeniseian. In their off-list messages, Nikolett
 F. Gulyás and Mark Post referred to similar classifiers in the Turkic languages of the Volga-Kama region and in Padam Adi (Trans-Himalayan/Sino-Tibetan > Tani, NE India), respectively.<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI">As regards Randy's comment on the 'mesh of the net', this is indeed the most common secondary meaning of many Uralic "eyes" as well.<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI">What strikes me most interesting is the Austronesian multi-purpose *<i>maCa</i> – the data behind Alex's link
<a href="https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-s_m.htm#30830" id="LPNoLPOWALinkPreview">
https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-s_m.htm#30830</a> is overwhelming. There seem to be many Austronesian "knee eyes" or "eyes of the knee" referring to knees and kneecaps, not unlike Lule Saami (Saami)
<i>buolvvatjalmme</i>, Forest Enets (Samoyed) <i>fuase</i> and Selkup (Samoyed) <i>
pulhaj</i> (<< PU *<i>pu/oxli</i> 'knee' + *<i>ćilmä</i> 'eye') in Uralic. At the other end of the spectrum, Mwotlap
<i>mete vit</i> "eye star" (Alex: "a star (taken individually)") has a parallel in Selkup
<i>qaškathaj</i> 'single star'.<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI">I also encountered Robert Blust's (2011) multifaceted paper "'Eye of the day': a response to Urban (2010)" at
<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236819367_%27Eye_of_the_Day%27_A_Response_to_Urban_2010" id="LPNoLPOWALinkPreview_1">
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236819367_%27Eye_of_the_Day%27_A_Response_to_Urban_2010</a>.<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI">Finally, I want to preadvertise Chris Lasse Däbritz's forthcoming paper "Typology of number systems in languages of Western and Central
 Siberia", to be published in <i>Finnisch-Ugrische<o:p> </o:p></i></span></p>
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<i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI">Forschungen</span></i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI">
 (<a href="https://journal.fi/fuf" id="LPNoLPOWALinkPreview_2">https://journal.fi/fuf</a>) within a few weeks. My own work in progress (on Uralic *<i>ćilmä</i>) has been condensed in a poster found at
<a href="http://cc.oulu.fi/~jylikosk/filer/singulative.pdf" id="LPNoLPOWALinkPreview_3">
http://cc.oulu.fi/~jylikosk/filer/singulative.pdf</a>.<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI"><o:p> </o:p></span>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI">Best regards,<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black;mso-themecolor:text1;mso-ansi-language:FI" lang="FI">Jussi<o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Frá:</b> Randy J. LaPolla <randy.lapolla@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> föstudagur, 15. október 2021 05:11<br>
<b>Til:</b> Alex Francois <alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com><br>
<b>Afrit:</b> Jussi Ylikoski <jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi>; LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org <LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Efni:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] 'eye' > singulative marker?</font>
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<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word; line-break:after-white-space">Hi Alex and Jussi,
<div class="">I think the ‘mesh of the net’ is also relevant here. Tagalog <i class="">
mata</i> and Chinese 目 <i class="">mù</i> both can refer to the mesh of a net, and in Chinese the openings in the net can be enumerated using ‘eye’, e.g. </div>
<div class="">60目的筛</div>
<div class="">60 eye ASSOC strainer/sieve</div>
<div class="">‘a sieve with 60 holes’</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Randy<br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 15 Oct 2021, at 6:36 AM, Alex Francois <<a href="mailto:alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com" class="">alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">dear Jussi,</div>
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</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Austronesian languages also tend to show rich polysemies around the noun for 'eye'.  </div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">The word reconstructs as an etymon *mata in PMP (Proto Malayo Polynesian), and *maCa in Proto Austronesian.</div>
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</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Robert Blust's online
<i class="">Austronesian Comparative Dictionary</i> (ACD) has a rich entry for PMP *mata :</div>
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<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><font class="" size="1"><a href="https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-s_m.htm#30830" target="_blank" class="">https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-s_m.htm#30830</a></font></div>
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<div class="x_gmail_default"><font class="" face="arial, sans-serif">PMP  </font>
<font class="" face="verdana, sans-serif">*</font><b class=""><font class="" face="verdana, sans-serif">mata</font>  </b><font class="" face="arial, sans-serif">“eye, face, focal point, center or most prominent part; hole, aperture; doorway, window; budding
 part of plant; ‘eye’ of coconut; knot in wood; sun; core of a boil; blade of a knife; to awaken; operculum of a snail; mesh of a net; eye of a needle; noose of a trap; hearth; direction of the wind; head of a river; spring, source; lid, cover”</font></div>
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</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">While this poly-gloss does not include "singulative marker" as such, some of the examples cited by Blust do include such meanings in certain modern Austronesian languages:</div>
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<td class="" style="font-size:0.9em; color:green; width:165.25px"><a href="https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-l_S.htm#Sangir" target="_blank" class="" style="color:navy; font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-weight:bold; text-decoration-line:none; font-size:11pt"><span class="" style="font-size:1em; color:green; font-weight:normal">Karo
 Batak</span></a></td>
<td class="" style="text-align:left; color:darkblue; font-size:1em; padding-left:6px; width:202.07px">
mata</td>
<td class="">eye<br class="">
</td>
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<td class="" style="font-size:0.9em; color:green; width:165.25px"><br>
</td>
<td class="" style="color:darkblue; font-size:1em; padding-left:6px; width:202.07px">
ŋke-mata<br class="">
</td>
<td class=""><u class="">counting classifier</u> for counting grains of rice</td>
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</tbody>
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<table class="" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:14.6667px; background-color:rgb(255,250,240)" width="90%" align="center">
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<td class="" style="font-size:0.9em; color:green; width:165.25px"><a href="https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-l_S.htm#Sangir" target="_blank" class="" style="color:navy; font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-weight:bold; text-decoration-line:none; font-size:11pt"><span class="" style="font-size:1em; color:green; font-weight:normal">Sangir</span></a><br class="">
</td>
<td class="" style="color:darkblue; font-size:1em; padding-left:6px; width:202.07px">
mata</td>
<td class="">eye; counting <u class="">classifier used in counting</u> snares and fishhooks<br class="">
</td>
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<td class="" style="font-size:0.9em; color:green; width:165.25px"><a href="https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-l_A.htm#Arosi" target="_blank" class="" style="color:navy; font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-weight:bold; text-decoration-line:none; font-size:11pt"><span class="" style="font-size:1em; color:green; font-weight:normal">Arosi</span></a></td>
<td class="" style="color:darkblue; font-size:1em; padding-left:6px; width:202.07px">
maa</td>
<td class="">eye; face; hole, opening, mesh of a net, gate; edge, point, brim; front of a person or house;
<u class="">numerical unit in counting</u> fish hooks, needles, stakes, flints, fishing rods, houses, traps, slings, armlets and matches; a spot, stain, crystal in rock, a groove for rubbing fire in a soft stick; to look at, stare; a circle; to lead</td>
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<td class="" style="font-size:0.9em; color:green; width:165.25px"><a href="https://www.trussel2.com/acd/acd-l_F.htm#Futunan" target="_blank" class="" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-weight:bold; color:navy; text-decoration-line:none; font-size:11pt"><span class="" style="font-size:1em; color:green; font-weight:normal">Futunan</span></a></td>
<td class="" style="color:darkblue; font-size:1em; padding-left:6px; width:202.07px">
mata</td>
<td class="">face (<i class="">plural</i>); eye; <u class="">numeral classifier for counting</u> fish; cutting edge, blade; front of something, in front</td>
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<div class="x_gmail_default" style="">
<ul class="" style="">
<li class="" style=""><font class="" size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">Blust, Robert. 2021.
<i class="" style="">Online Austronesian Comparative Dictionary (ACD)</i>. <br class="">
Honolulu: University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa.<br class="">
[<a href="https://www.trussel2.com/acd" class="">https://www.trussel2.com/acd</a>]<br class="">
</font></li></ul>
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</blockquote>
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</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Also, from my data on Vanuatu languages: </div>
<div class="x_gmail_default"><font class="" face="verdana, sans-serif">Mwotlap</font><font class="" face="tahoma, sans-serif"> (an Austronesian language of Vanuatu) has a noun
<i class="">mete</i> 'eye; opening+'… (<*mata) which functions as a </font><span class="" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">singulative marker with certain nouns:</span></div>
<div class="x_gmail_default">
<ul class="">
<li class=""><font class="" face="verdana, sans-serif"><i class="">vit</i> </font><font class="" face="tahoma, sans-serif">  “stars (in the night sky)”  → 
</font><i class=""><font class="" face="verdana, sans-serif"><b class="">mete</b> vit </font></i><i class="" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">
</i><font class="" face="tahoma, sans-serif">“a star (taken individually)”</font></li></ul>
</div>
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<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">best</div>
<div class="">
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<div dir="ltr" class=""><span class="" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><font class="" size="2">Alex</font></span>
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<p class="" style="font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-serif"><font class="" size="2"><span class="" style="color:rgb(69,129,142)">Alex François</span><span class="" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class="">
</span></font></p>
<span class="" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font class="" size="1"><span class="" style="text-decoration:none"><a href="http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/" rel="noopener" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration:none">LaTTiCe</a> — <a title="ENS" href="http://www.cnrs.fr/index.html" rel="noopener" target="_blank" class="" style="color:rgb(51,102,204); text-decoration:none">CNRS–</a><a title="ENS" href="https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094" rel="noopener" target="_blank" class="" style="color:rgb(51,102,204); text-decoration:none">ENS</a>–<a title="ENS" href="http://www.univ-paris3.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp" rel="noopener" target="_blank" class="" style="color:rgb(51,102,204); text-decoration:none">Sorbonne
 nouvelle</a><br class="">
</span><a href="https://researchers.anu.edu.au/researchers/francois-a" rel="noopener" target="_blank" class="" style="color:rgb(51,102,204); text-decoration:none">Australian National University<br class="">
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 homepage</a><br class="">
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<div class=""><font class="" size="1">___________________</font><font class="" size="1">___________________</font><font class="" size="1">___</font><br class="">
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<div class="x_gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 at 10:05, Randy J. LaPolla <<a href="mailto:randy.lapolla@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">randy.lapolla@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
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<div class="">Dear Jussi,
<div class="">In Chinese there are two words for ‘eye’, mù (目) and yǎn (眼)--the former is older than the latter--and both are used in ways relevant to what you are looking for:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The former is used for ’item’ of a larger whole, like in</div>
<div class="">目錄、書目、要目、條目、目次</div>
<div class="">mùlù, shùmù, yaōmù, tiáomu, mùcì</div>
<div class="">eye-record book-eye, important-eye, line-eye, eye-order</div>
<div class="">‘record of items’, ’table of contents’, ‘important points’, 'items in a text', ‘ordered list of items'</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The latter is used as a measure word for wells:</div>
<div class="">一眼井</div>
<div class="">yî yǎn jǐng</div>
<div class="">one eye well</div>
<div class="">‘one well’</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Hope this helps.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Randy</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""><span class="" style="font-size:15px">——</span><br class="" style="font-size:15px">
<span class="" style="font-size:15px">Professor Randy J. LaPolla(罗仁地), PhD FAHA </span><br class="" style="font-size:15px">
<span class="" style="font-size:15px">Center for Language Sciences</span><br class="" style="font-size:15px">
<span class="" style="font-size:15px">Institute for Advanced Studies in Humanities and Social Sciences</span><br class="" style="font-size:15px">
<span class="" style="font-size:15px">Beijing Normal University, Zhuhai Campus</span><br class="" style="font-size:15px">
<span class="" style="font-size:15px">A302, Muduo Building, #18 Jinfeng Road, Zhuhai City, China</span><br class="" style="font-size:15px">
<br class="" style="font-size:15px">
<div class="" style="font-size:15px">邮编:519000<br class="">
广东省珠海市唐家湾镇金凤路18号木铎楼A302<br class="">
北京师范大学珠海校区<br class="">
人文和社会科学高等研究院<br class="">
语言科学研究中心 </div>
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 14 Oct 2021, at 3:39 AM, Jussi Ylikoski <<a href="mailto:jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi" target="_blank" class="">jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="" style="font-family:Tahoma,Geneva,sans-serif; font-size:10pt">
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI">Dear Colleagues,<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI">In honor of World Sight Day (the second Thursday of October), I am looking for information about nouns denoting 'eye' being grammaticalized into singulative markers of some kind.<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI">The best-known example might be Hungarian
<i class="">szem</i> 'eye', which is, however, generally and obviously better considered a kind of classifier among other classifiers. However, many cognates of
<i class="">szem</i> in the easternmost (Samoyed, Khanty and Mansi) and the northernmost (Saami) branches of Uralic appear to deserve to be characterized as some kind of singulative markers, as seen in the following North Saami compound-like expressions that
 could, in principle be reconstructed all the way to Proto-Uralic:<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; line-height:115%">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; line-height:115%">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI">North Saami<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; line-height:115%">
<i class=""><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI">čalbmi</span></i><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI"> 'eye'<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; line-height:115%">
<i class=""><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI">varra-čalbmi</span></i><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI"> 'drop of blood' (~ North Khanty
<i class="">wŭr-sem</i> id.)<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; line-height:115%">
<i class=""><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI">jiekŋa-čalbmi</span></i><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI"> 'particle of ice' (~ Hungarian
<i class="">jég-szem</i> 'hailstone')<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; line-height:115%">
<i class=""><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI">muorje-čalbmi</span></i><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI"> 'single berry'<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; line-height:115%">
<i class=""><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI">vuokta-čalbmi</span></i><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI"> 'single hair (on a human head)'<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI">Interestingly, similar 'eye' singulatives can also be found in the neighboring Ket (see Helimski's "<i class="">S</i>-singulatives in Ket" at
<a href="https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.31826/jlr-2017-143-404/html" target="_blank" class="">
https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.31826/jlr-2017-143-404/html</a>), but otherwise there seems to be little global information about the origins of singulative markers, and even less about potentially analogous singulatives based on 'eye' in particular.<u class=""></u><br class="">
<u class=""></u></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0cm; font-size:12pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; line-height:115%">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI"><u class=""></u><br class="">
<u class=""></u></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI"><u class=""></u>Anne Storch's (2014: 278) grammar of Luwo contains the solitary example
<i class="">wɔ́ŋ jɛ́n</i> [eye chicken:COLL] 'one chicken', though. I am also aware of the colexification of EYE, SEED, GRAIN etc., which looks like a natural route to singulatives (<a href="https://clics.clld.org/graphs/subgraph_1248" target="_blank" class="">https://clics.clld.org/graphs/subgraph_1248</a>).<br class="">
<u class=""></u></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI">So I am wondering whether there are other similar 'eye' singulatives out there, in addition to Uralic and Yeniseian (and Luwo)?<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI">Best regards,<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="FI">Jussi<u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></div>
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