<div style="line-height:1.7;color:#000000;font-size:14px;font-family:Arial"><div style="margin: 0px;">Hi Jesse,</div><div style="margin: 0px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;">Thank you so much for the reply!</div><div style="margin: 0px;">In the Guanzhong dialects of Shaanxi Province (陕西关中方言） there are actually two sorts of 'Adj.-de-hen得很', one with <i>hen很 </i> stressed and elongated in articulation, which is the canonical intensified AP, used only in main clauses as exclamatives. The other, with <i>hen很 in </i>neutral tone, is used as the 'causing state' with a negative effect indispensable. And this intensification-as-causer construction, interesting enough, allow only those 'negative-side adjectives' such as 'bad', 'skinny' or those dimension-associated adjectives such 'long/short' 'heavy/light', but never 'positive' ones such as 'good', 'agreeable', etc.and can never be an exclamative, The two variations are complementary, never overlapped. </div><div style="margin: 0px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;">As for 'tai-A-le太A了'，it can be ambiguous between an exclamation and an 'excessively A' (complaining, e.g.), dependent on discourse situations. </div><div style="margin: 0px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;">Best,</div><div style="margin: 0px;">Jeremy</div><p style="margin: 0px;"><br></p><p style="margin: 0px;"><br></p><p style="margin: 0px;"><br></p><div style="position: relative; zoom: 1;"><p style="margin: 0px;">--</p><div>唐正大</div><div>中国社会科学院语言研究所《中国语文》编辑部</div><div>北京市建国门内大街5号，100732</div><div><br></div><div>Institute of Linguistics, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences,</div><div>No.5 Jianguomennei Dajie, Beijing, China; 100732</div><div style="clear: both;"></div></div><div id="divNeteaseMailCard"></div><p style="margin: 0px;"><br></p><p>At 2021-10-16 17:55:28, "Jesse P. Gates" <stauskad@gmail.com> wrote:</p><blockquote id="isReplyContent" style="padding-left: 1ex; margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);"><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Jeremy,</div><div><br></div><div>Could you tell us the precise Chinese dialect that this construction occurs in? In many other Chinese dialects 'Adj.-de-hen' is simply an intensification construction, so it is interesting how this dialect that you speak of has constrained the meaning so specifically to a cause to negative effect meaning. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Languages often have a choice between a negative intensifier and a positive one. </div><div><br></div><div>I think in English 'too' often has negative overtones to it, but not always. </div><div><br></div><div>In French, 'trop' is a negative intensifier and 'tres' is a positive one. But I have heard that this is changing a bit and young people on the streets use trop for some positive senses. </div><div><br></div><div>When I first started studying Chinese it took me a while to understand that 太 did not intensify in a negative way, necessarily. For example, if I say in English, 'he's too fast', that usually means something negative (like I can't catch him or beat him in a race), it usually doesn't mean 'he is very fast' in a neutral way or 'he's so fast' in a positive way. But in Mandarin 他太快了 can be used for the meaning 'he is very fast', it can be used to get a neutral, or negative, or positive meaning. </div><div><br></div><div>--<br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Best regards,</span><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br><b>Jesse P. Gates, PhD<br></b>Nankai University, School of Literature 南开大学文学院<br><a href="https://nankai.academia.edu/JesseGates" target="_blank">https://nankai.academia.edu/JesseGates</a></span></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 2:55 PM tangzhengda <<a href="mailto:tangzhengda@126.com">tangzhengda@126.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="line-height: 1.7;"><div style="margin: 0px;">Dear colleagues,</div><div style="margin: 0px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;">In a certain NW Chinese dialect the adjective phrase of '<b>Adj.-<i>de</i>-hen</b>' (roughly taken to mean '<b>very Adj</b>.') can only be used <i>on condition that</i> it take the role of a CAUSE, or a 'causing state', by which a NEGATIVE EFFECT is resulted. The Negative effect, as an 'event' that has never factually happen, can be encoded as another clause, an element of the same clause, or totally covertly implied. For example,</div><div style="margin: 0px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;"> INTS as CAUSE NEG EFFECT</div><div style="margin: 0px;"> 这 鸡 瘦-得-很， 他 不 买</div><div style="margin: 0px;"> this chicken thin-de-very, he NEG. buy.</div><div style="margin: 0px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;"> (When buying chickens) 这 鸡 瘦-得-很。 </div><div style="margin: 0px;"> this chicken thin-de-very</div><div style="margin: 0px;"> 'The chicken is thin (therefore he cannot buy it/it fails to be worth...)'</div><div style="margin: 0px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;"> （See a chicken roaming by, no intent to buy） <span style="font-size: 16px;"><b>* </b></span>这 鸡 瘦-得-很</div><div style="margin: 0px;"> this chicken thin-de-very</div><p style="margin: 0px;"><br></p><div style="margin: 0px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;"> My wonder is whether some correlation exists between the intensification of a property (like an AP magnified by the degree words) and the CAUSTION, esp. negative ones (in Barros 2003, positive cause plus a negative effect is one type of the negative caustion where the relata is termed as 'prevention/interference'). Perhaps English 'too...to...' could be such a construction to connect the state/property and an EVENT. If yes, how is the correlation motivated and typologically attested?</div><div style="margin: 0px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;">With best wishes,</div><div style="margin: 0px;">Jeremy</div><p style="margin: 0px;"><br></p><div style="zoom: 1;"><p style="margin: 0px;">--</p><div>唐正大</div><div>中国社会科学院语言研究所《中国语文》编辑部</div><div>北京市建国门内大街5号，100732</div><div><br></div><div>Institute of Linguistics, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences,</div><div>No.5 Jianguomennei Dajie, Beijing, China; 100732</div><div style="clear: both;"></div></div><div id="gmail-m_-1714716533300832061divNeteaseMailCard"></div><p style="margin: 0px;"><br></p><p><br></p><blockquote id="gmail-m_-1714716533300832061isReplyContent" style="padding-left: 1ex; margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);"><div></div></blockquote></div><br><br><span title="neteasefooter"><p> </p></span>_______________________________________________<br>Lingtyp mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></blockquote><p style="margin: 0;"><br></p><p style="margin: 0;"><br></p><p style="margin: 0;"><br></p><p style="margin: 0;"><br></p><div style="position:relative;zoom:1"><p style="margin: 0">--</p><div>唐正大</div><div>中国社会科学院语言研究所《中国语文》编辑部</div><div>北京市建国门内大街5号，100732</div><div><br></div><div>Institute of Linguistics, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences,</div><div>No.5 Jianguomennei Dajie, Beijing, China; 100732</div><div style="clear:both"></div></div><div id="divNeteaseMailCard"></div><p style="margin: 0;"><br></p><p>At 2021-10-16 17:55:28, "Jesse P. Gates" <stauskad@gmail.com> wrote:</p><blockquote id="isReplyContent" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Jeremy,</div><div><br></div><div>Could you tell us the precise Chinese dialect that this construction occurs in? In many other Chinese dialects 'Adj.-de-hen' is simply an intensification construction, so it is interesting how this dialect that you speak of has constrained the meaning so specifically to a cause to negative effect meaning. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Languages often have a choice between a negative intensifier and a positive one. </div><div><br></div><div>I think in English 'too' often has negative overtones to it, but not always. </div><div><br></div><div>In French, 'trop' is a negative intensifier and 'tres' is a positive one. But I have heard that this is changing a bit and young people on the streets use trop for some positive senses. </div><div><br></div><div>When I first started studying Chinese it took me a while to understand that 太 did not intensify in a negative way, necessarily. For example, if I say in English, 'he's too fast', that usually means something negative (like I can't catch him or beat him in a race), it usually doesn't mean 'he is very fast' in a neutral way or 'he's so fast' in a positive way. But in Mandarin 他太快了 can be used for the meaning 'he is very fast', it can be used to get a neutral, or negative, or positive meaning. </div><div><br></div><div>--<br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Best regards,</span><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br><b>Jesse P. Gates, PhD<br></b>Nankai University, School of Literature 南开大学文学院<br><a href="https://nankai.academia.edu/JesseGates" target="_blank">https://nankai.academia.edu/JesseGates</a></span></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 2:55 PM tangzhengda <<a href="mailto:tangzhengda@126.com">tangzhengda@126.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="line-height:1.7;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-family:Arial"><div style="margin:0px">Dear colleagues,</div><div style="margin:0px"><br></div><div style="margin:0px">In a certain NW Chinese dialect the adjective phrase of '<b>Adj.-<i>de</i>-hen</b>' (roughly taken to mean '<b>very Adj</b>.') can only be used <i>on condition that</i> it take the role of a CAUSE, or a 'causing state', by which a NEGATIVE EFFECT is resulted. The Negative effect, as an 'event' that has never factually happen, can be encoded as another clause, an element of the same clause, or totally covertly implied. For example,</div><div style="margin:0px"><br></div><div style="margin:0px"> INTS as CAUSE NEG EFFECT</div><div style="margin:0px"> 这 鸡 瘦-得-很， 他 不 买</div><div style="margin:0px"> this chicken thin-de-very, he NEG. buy.</div><div style="margin:0px"><br></div><div style="margin:0px"> (When buying chickens) 这 鸡 瘦-得-很。 </div><div style="margin:0px"> this chicken thin-de-very</div><div style="margin:0px"> 'The chicken is thin (therefore he cannot buy it/it fails to be worth...)'</div><div style="margin:0px"><br></div><div style="margin:0px"> （See a chicken roaming by, no intent to buy） <span style="font-size:16px"><b>* </b></span>这 鸡 瘦-得-很</div><div style="margin:0px"> this chicken thin-de-very</div><p style="margin:0px"><br></p><div style="margin:0px"><br></div><div style="margin:0px"> My wonder is whether some correlation exists between the intensification of a property (like an AP magnified by the degree words) and the CAUSTION, esp. negative ones (in Barros 2003, positive cause plus a negative effect is one type of the negative caustion where the relata is termed as 'prevention/interference'). Perhaps English 'too...to...' could be such a construction to connect the state/property and an EVENT. If yes, how is the correlation motivated and typologically attested?</div><div style="margin:0px"><br></div><div style="margin:0px">With best wishes,</div><div style="margin:0px">Jeremy</div><p style="margin:0px"><br></p><div style="zoom:1"><p style="margin:0px">--</p><div>唐正大</div><div>中国社会科学院语言研究所《中国语文》编辑部</div><div>北京市建国门内大街5号，100732</div><div><br></div><div>Institute of Linguistics, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences,</div><div>No.5 Jianguomennei Dajie, Beijing, China; 100732</div><div style="clear:both"></div></div><div id="gmail-m_-1714716533300832061divNeteaseMailCard"></div><p style="margin:0px"><br></p><p><br></p><blockquote id="gmail-m_-1714716533300832061isReplyContent" style="padding-left:1ex;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)"><div>
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