<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear all,</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you very much for an impressive set of data and references -- with some touches of fun, Joseph, which is always nice :)</div><div><br></div><div>As
a follow-up to my original question, I would now like to mention that,
as far as I can see, probably all the verbal markers used in combination
with a pronoun or intensifier have other functions besides reflexivity
(although I still need to check a few references, especially as regards
some of the South American languages referred to by Josh Birchall). This
makes sense, of course, because the function (or at least, the origin)
of the "double reflexive" is usually that of bringing out the reflexive meaning
unambiguously; on the other hand, it is not totally unconceivable that a
reflexive-only affix or particle could co-occur with a pronoun or
intensifier, although one would in principle expect such a situation to
be relatively rare. So, my new question is: are there any constructions in which a marker that has reflexivity as
its only attested function co-occurs with a pronoun or intensifier -- or, for that matter, in which a reflexive-only pronoun co-occurs with an intensifier?</div><div><br></div><div>Again, many thanks in advance and best wishes to all!</div><div>R</div><div><br></div><div>P.S.: @Randy: since the term "middle" is used in so many different ways in the literature, I am not sure this is relevant to your consideration, but indeed there are several languages in which the intransitivizer occurring in "double reflexive" constructions also occurs in non-reflexive (and non-middle?) situations. For instance, the marker <i>-ki </i>in Mosetén is used for antipassive/object demotion (e.g. 'I eat-<i>ki</i>')<i>; </i>and then of course we have the intransitivizing prefixes of Oceanic languages, which have a remarkable variety of uses.<br></div>
</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Alex Francois <<a href="mailto:alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com">alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com</a>> escreveu no dia quinta, 9/12/2021 à(s) 13:05:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Dear Riccardo,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">In Mwotlap (an Oceanic language of Vanuatu), the reflexive/reciprocal is usually unmarked: such interpretations are usually simply inferred from the co-reference between the agent and the patient [e.g. “I saw me”]. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">With a 3rd non-singular pronoun (dual, trial or plural), there is an ambiguity between </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">(a) a simple transitive clause with distinct referents for agent & patient</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">(b) a reflexive interpretation</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">(c) a reciprocal interpretation</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Thus ex (1) has three interpretations:</div><div class="gmail_default"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">1) </span><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><b>Kōyō</b> mu-wuh mat <b>kōyō</b>.</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="monospace"> 3du PFT-hit dead 3du</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"> </span><font face="arial, sans-serif"> a/ “They killed them.” <font size="1"> [2 people killed 2 other people, total 4 participants]</font></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> b/ “They killed themselves.” <font size="1"> [2 people committing suicide]</font></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, sans-serif"> c/ “They killed each other.”</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Now, Mwotlap also has a reversive ('refactive'?) postverb <i>lok</i> 'back, again':</div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="monospace">2) </font><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">Nok so m̄ōl <b>lok </b> l-ēm̄.</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="monospace"> 1sg Prosp return REVERS Loc-house</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="monospace"> </font><font face="arial, sans-serif">“Let me go <b>back</b> home.”</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="monospace">3) </font><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif">Vap <b>lok </b> se!</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="monospace"> say REVERS also</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="monospace"> </font><font face="arial, sans-serif">“Say it <b>again</b>!”</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"></div><div class="gmail_default"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">If you use that reversive <i>lok</i> in a sentence like (1) above, you disambiguate its meaning by ruling out interpretations (a) and (c); </span><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">essentially you're left with an interpretation as a reflexive:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default"><div class="gmail_default"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif">4) </font><font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"><b>Kōyō</b> mu-wuh mat <b>lok</b> <b>kōyō</b>.</font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="times new roman, serif"><font> </font> </font><font face="monospace">3du PFT-hit dead REVERS 3du</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><font size="1"> ? <i>a/ “They killed them.” [2 people killed 2 other people, total 4 participants]</i></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><font size="1"> b/ </font>“They killed themselves.” <font size="1"> [2 people committing suicide]</font></div><font size="1"><font face="tahoma, sans-serif"> ? </font><font style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><i>a/ “They killed each other.” </i></font></font><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">This seems to be the sort of structure you were looking for.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">____</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Reference: See page 372 of my dissertation:</div><div class="gmail_default"><ul><li><font face="georgia, serif">François, Alexandre. 2001. <br><i><a href="http://alex.francois.online.fr/AFpub_books_e.htm#01" target="_blank">Contraintes de structures et liberté dans l'organisation du discours: Une description du mwotlap, langue océanienne du Vanuatu</a></i>. <br>Doctoral dissertation in Linguistics, Université Paris-IV Sorbonne. 1078 pp.</font><br></li></ul></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">best,<br></div></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><font size="2">Alex</font></span><hr style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:13.33px;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" width="70" size="1" noshade align="left"><p style="font-family:verdana,geneva,sans-serif"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(69,129,142)">Alex François</span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></font></p><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1"><span style="text-decoration:none"><a style="text-decoration:none" href="http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/" rel="noopener" target="_blank">LaTTiCe</a> — <a title="ENS" style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="http://www.cnrs.fr/index.html" rel="noopener" target="_blank">CNRS–</a><a title="ENS" style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094" rel="noopener" target="_blank">ENS</a>–<a title="ENS" style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="http://www.univ-paris3.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Sorbonne nouvelle</a><br></span><a style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="https://researchers.anu.edu.au/researchers/francois-a" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Australian National University</a></font><font size="1"><span style="text-decoration:none"><font size="1"><span style="text-decoration:none"><br></span></font></span></font></span><div><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1"><span style="text-decoration:none"><font size="1"><span style="text-decoration:none"> </span><span style="text-decoration:none"></span></font></span><span style="text-decoration:none"><a style="color:rgb(51,102,204);text-decoration:none" href="http://alex.francois.online.fr/" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Personal homepage</a><br></span></font></span></div><div><font size="1">___________________</font><font size="1">___________________</font><font size="1">___</font><br><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1"><span style="text-decoration:none"></span></font></span></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 at 18:16, Riccardo Giomi <<a href="mailto:rgiomi@campus.ul.pt" target="_blank">rgiomi@campus.ul.pt</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear typologists,</div><div><br></div><div>I am looking for languages in which, with some predicates at least, unambiguous expression of reflexivity is only attained by combining two separate markers. Typically, the elements participating in such "double-reflexive" constructions (quotes needed) belong to one of the following, broadly-defined classes:</div><div><br></div><div>- a valency-decreasing "middle" marker / intransitivizer (usually, though not necessarily a bound morpheme);</div><div><br></div><div>- a reflexive, personal or logophoric pronoun;</div><div><br></div><div>- a so-called reflexive intensifier, i.e. an element that functions like English reflexive pronouns in appositional or adverbial position (e.g. <i>I myself swept the ground / I swept the ground myself</i>).<br></div><div><br></div><div>Below are a few examples of possible combinations of such elements (I have harmonized the glosses used by the various authors):<br></div><div><br></div><div>Intransitivizer + reflexive pronoun: Kuuk Thaayorre</div><div><img src="cid:ii_kwxpr3ky0" alt="immagine.png" style="margin-right: 0px;" width="349" height="77"></div><div><br></div><div>Intransitivizer + personal pronoun: Hmwaveke<br></div><div><img src="cid:ii_kwxpyjb02" alt="immagine.png" style="margin-right: 0px;" width="235" height="83"></div><div><br></div><div>Intransitivizer + intensifier (attached to the (subject) nominal and glossed 'SELF'): Dyirbal</div><div><img src="cid:ii_kwxqz8tc4" alt="immagine.png" style="margin-right: 0px;" width="197" height="84"></div><div><br></div><div>
Intransitivizer + intensifier (attached to the verb): Mezquital Otomí
</div><div><img src="cid:ii_kwxqofs63" alt="immagine.png" style="margin-right: 0px;" width="253" height="71"><br></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm;text-align:justify;line-height:115%;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">(Gast & Siemund 2006: 368. The authors also give an example in which the intensifier takes the longer form
<i><span lang="EN-GB">sε̌hε̒<span></span></span> </i>and occurs as an unbound adverb-like element.)<br></p></div><div><br></div><div>Intensifier (marked ergative, in apposition to the (subject) nominal) + personal/logophoric pronoun (marked absolutive)
: Tsakhur<br></div><div><img src="cid:ii_kwxrhh6l5" alt="immagine.png" style="margin-right: 0px;" width="272" height="92"><br></div><div><br></div><div>If any of you is aware of a language in which "double marking" of reflexivity is the only option, that would be especially helpful; but, more generally, I am interested in all such constructions -- or possibly other, comparable ones which I may be leaving out of the picture. (Please don't bother signalling Germanic or Romance data like German <i>sich + selbst</i> or Spanish <i>si + a si mismo</i> -- I am already taking those into account.) <br></div><div><br></div><div>Many thanks in advance, best wishes,</div><div>Riccardo</div><div><br></div><div>References</div><div><span lang="EN-GB">Dik, Simon C. 1983. The Status of verbal
reflexives. In Liliane Tasmowski & Dominique Willems (eds.), <i>Problems in syntax</i>, 231–255. New York
& London: Plenum Press.</span><span lang="EN-GB"></span><span lang="EN-GB"><br></span></div><div><span lang="EN-GB">Gaby, Alice. 2006. <i>A grammar of Kuuk Thaayorre.</i> Melbourne: University of Melbourne dissertation.<span></span></span><span lang="EN-GB"></span>
<span lang="EN-GB"><br></span></div><div><span lang="EN-GB">Gast, Volker & Peter Siemund. 2006.
Rethinking the relationship between SELF-intensifiers and reflexives". <i>Linguistics</i> 44(2), 343-381.</span></div><div><span lang="EN-GB">Lyutikova, Ekaterina A. 2000. Reflexives and emphasis in Tsaxur (Nakh-Dagestanian). In </span><span lang="EN-GB"> Z. Frajzyngier and T. Curl (eds.), </span><span lang="EN-GB"><i>Reflexives: Forms and Functions, </i>227-255. Amsterdam: John Benjamins.
</span></div><div><span lang="EN-GB">Moyse-Faurie, Claire. 2008. Constructions
expressing middle, reflexive and reciprocal situations in some Oceanic languages.
In Ekkehard König & Volker Gast (eds.), <i>Reciprocals</i>
<i>and reflexives: Theoretical and typological
explorations</i>, 105–168. Berlin & New York: Mouton de Gruyter.<span></span></span>
</div><div><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Riccardo Giomi, Ph.D.<br></div>University of Liège</div><div dir="ltr">
Département de langues modernes : linguistique, littérature et traduction</div><div dir="ltr">Research group <i>Linguistique contrastive et typologie des langues</i></div><div>F.R.S.-FNRS Postdoctoral fellow (CR - FC 43095)</div><div><i></i></div></div></div></div></div>
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