<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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<p>If you need some type of theoretical framework for this study,
you could use Jonathan Culpeper's work on impoliteness, see for
instance this paper on 'impoliteness strategies':</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/300633947_Impoliteness_Strategies">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/300633947_Impoliteness_Strategies</a></p>
<p>Culpeper distinguishes eleven types of insults in Section 8 on
'impoliteness triggers' (referring to his own earlier work from
2011). He extended Brown/Levinston-style politeness theory to
impoliteness -- communicative actions intended to damage someone's
(positive) face.</p>
<p>I doubt that languages have grammaticalized ways of expressing,
for instance, positive impoliteness, in the same way as they
encode positive politeness (e.g. in the V/T-forms of European
languages). Perhaps you could consider the use of T-forms in a
V-context as impolite (and potentially offensive). I wouldn't
regard the types of structures found in 'personalized negative
vocatives' (Culpeper's term) "grammaticalized". I think they
rather belong in the lexicon, but that's obviously a matter of
definition.</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15.12.21 11:39, Riccardo Giomi
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+KJqQFjsLNjDDTSGvfjkeXu_OBWEg7_tZk3nzZzYorc=Hc1Yw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear all,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you very much for a nice set of data and references.
This will be extremely useful. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I will reply to some of you privately, asking for further
comments/data/references. In the mean time, any further
feedback is of course more than welcome!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>@Maia & Paolo: I agree with Paolo that <i>pezzo di /
espèce de</i> are not grammaticalized, although not for the
reason he mentions. After all the working hypothesis is
precisely that languages can have grammaticalized means of
marking a speech act as an insult, so, according to this
hypothesis, the fact that <i>pezzo di X</i> never occurs with
positively connotated epithets does not entail that the
construction is not grammaticalized.</div>
<div>A different type of argument for regarding these as lexical
constructions is the fact that premodifying adjectives must
agree with <i>pezzo </i>and not with the epithet (and I
guess the same goes for French <i>espèce</i>), cf. <i>brutt<u>o</u>
pezzo di cretina</i>, as opposed to *<i>brutt<u>a</u> pezzo
di cretina</i>. This suggests that <i>pezzo </i>is the
head of the construction; if it had been a grammaticalized
element, I suppose agreement would have been with the epithet.
At any rate, these nouns are not really reserved for marking a
speech act as an insult -- they can also occur in other types
of speech act, e.g. declarative <i>Quel pezzo di X mi ha
rubato la bici </i>(roughly, 'That dirty X stole my bike').</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best wishes to all,</div>
<div>Riccardo<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Paolo Ramat <<a
href="mailto:paoram@unipv.it" moz-do-not-send="true">paoram@unipv.it</a>>
escreveu no dia quarta, 15/12/2021 à(s) 11:03:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">In Italian too <i>pezzo di X </i>'espèce de
X' , as in <i>pezzo di idiota </i>and the very insulting,
derogating<i> (</i>but very much used)<i> pezzo di merda, </i>appears
just in derogating expressions: you will never hear <i>
*pezzo di genio, </i>nor<i> *pezzo di benefattore ! </i>This
is, I think, an argument for not considering the construct
<i>'pezzo di X ' </i>as belonging to the grammar (Maia).
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Paolo</div>
<div><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">Prof.
Dr. Paolo Ramat</span>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">
<div>Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Socio
corrispondente<br>
<div>'Academia Europaea'</div>
<div>'Societas Linguistica Europaea', Honorary
Member</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>Università di Pavia (retired)</div>
<div>Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori
(IUSS Pavia) (retired)</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">piazzetta Arduino
11 - I 27100 Pavia</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">##39 0382 27027</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">347 044 98 44</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Il giorno mer 15 dic 2021
alle ore 07:48 Nigel Vincent <<a
href="mailto:nigel.vincent@manchester.ac.uk"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nigel.vincent@manchester.ac.uk</a>>
ha scritto:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Maia
is of course right that the English 'you X' is a way
of insulting people but that depends on X being an
insult. The same construction can be used to praise:
'you genius', 'you darling', etc.</div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Nigel</div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div
id="gmail-m_-7318995592525743576gmail-m_-766327169779748147Signature">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">Professor
Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE<br>
Professor Emeritus of General
& Romance Linguistics<br>
The University of Manchester</div>
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Linguistics & English
Language<br>
School of Arts, Languages
and Cultures<br>
</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>The
University of Manchester</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<a
href="https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
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<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div
id="gmail-m_-7318995592525743576gmail-m_-766327169779748147divRplyFwdMsg"
dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp
<<a
href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
on behalf of Maia Ponsonnet <<a
href="mailto:maia.ponsonnet@uwa.edu.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">maia.ponsonnet@uwa.edu.au</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 15 December 2021 1:54 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jussi Ylikoski <<a
href="mailto:jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi</a>>;
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<<a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Grammatical marking of
insults (?)</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Hello, </div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Doesn't
the English "you idiot" (you [insult]) qualify as an
example? </div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Copula-free
adposition is not standard in English predication,
and it seems largely limited to second person sing
and derogatory adjectives? </div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> </div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">French
has "espèce d'idiot" - not sure whether it qualifies
as grammatical or lexical. </div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> </div>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Cheers,
Maïa</div>
<div
id="gmail-m_-7318995592525743576gmail-m_-766327169779748147x_Signature">
<div>
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id="gmail-m_-7318995592525743576gmail-m_-766327169779748147x_divtagdefaultwrapper"
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style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
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<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:16px"><span
style="font-size:small">Dr Maïa
Ponsonnet</span><br
style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
<span style="font-size:small">Senior
Lecturer, Discipline of Linguistics</span></p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:16px"><span
style="font-size:small">Graduate
Research Coordinator, School of Social
Sciences</span></p>
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style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:16px"><span
style="font-size:small">Building M257,
Room 2.36</span></p>
<p
style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:16px"><span
style="font-size:small">The University
of Western Australia</span><br
style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">
<span style="font-size:small">35 Stirling
Hwy, </span><span
style="font-size:small">Perth, WA
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<div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div
id="gmail-m_-7318995592525743576gmail-m_-766327169779748147x_divRplyFwdMsg"
dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Lingtyp <<a
href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
on behalf of Jussi Ylikoski <<a
href="mailto:jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jussi.ylikoski@oulu.fi</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 15 December 2021 6:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<<a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Grammatical
marking of insults (?)</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dear
Riccardo and all,</div>
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">D’Avis
and Meibauer's paper "Du Idiot! Din idiot!
Pseudo-vocative constructions and insults in
German (and Swedish)" (<a
href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.degruyter.com%2Fdocument%2Fdoi%2F10.1515%2F9783110304176.189%2Fhtml&data=04%7C01%7Cmaia.ponsonnet%40uwa.edu.au%7Ccc94c4625b3c491e5c2808d9bf4e9dc5%7C05894af0cb2846d8871674cdb46e2226%7C0%7C0%7C637751168309659999%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Qm0dhs6L0wUoC0ozwJeshZnGlztNFYs2tB0%2FwjH91yo%3D&reserved=0"
id="gmail-m_-7318995592525743576gmail-m_-766327169779748147LPNoLPOWALinkPreview"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783110304176.189/html</a>)
might be of interest; see also the thirty
studies referring to this paper according to
Google Scholar:
<a
href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com%2Fscholar%3Fcites%3D9645899484374998601&data=04%7C01%7Cmaia.ponsonnet%40uwa.edu.au%7Ccc94c4625b3c491e5c2808d9bf4e9dc5%7C05894af0cb2846d8871674cdb46e2226%7C0%7C0%7C637751168309659999%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=SiEIXLU6h58y3oPt6JDnSMiqxAD9CDEmDdvrhfbB%2F64%3D&reserved=0"
id="gmail-m_-7318995592525743576gmail-m_-766327169779748147LPlnk878646"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=9645899484374998601</a> (and so
forth).</div>
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Best
regards,</div>
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Jussi<br>
</div>
<div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:Tahoma,Geneva,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div
id="gmail-m_-7318995592525743576gmail-m_-766327169779748147x_x_divRplyFwdMsg"
dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>Frá:</b>
Lingtyp <<a
href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
fyrir hönd Sebastian Nordhoff <<a
href="mailto:sebastian.nordhoff@glottotopia.de"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">sebastian.nordhoff@glottotopia.de</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> þriðjudagur, 14. desember 2021
22:50<br>
<b>Til:</b> <a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<<a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Efni:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Grammatical
marking of insults (?)</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt">
<div>Dear Riccardo,<br>
Sinhala has several levels of politeness
in imperatives (marked by <br>
affixes), one of which would be rendered
as "Do X, you $#!% !!!". I once <br>
nearly got beaten up when
underestimating the impact that the use
of <br>
this form can have. I can look up the
reference if you want to.<br>
Best wishes<br>
Sebastian<br>
<br>
On 12/14/21 19:49, Riccardo Giomi wrote:<br>
> Dear all,<br>
> <br>
> A student of mine would like to
investigate the linguistic coding of <br>
> insults across languages. She is
particularly interested in finding out <br>
> whether languages can have
dedicated (uses of) grammatical <br>
> forms/constructions for this
specific purpose. The best example I
could <br>
> come up with so far is the use of
the Portuguese third person reflexive <br>
> possessive adjective (determiner in
Brazilian Portuguese) /seu/sua/ with <br>
> epithets which are meant as
insults. An example would be<br>
> <br>
> /Cala=te, seu burro!/<br>
> <a href="http://shut.up.IMP.2.SG"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">shut.up.IMP.2.SG</a>
<<a
href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fshut.up.imp.2.sg%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmaia.ponsonnet%40uwa.edu.au%7Ccc94c4625b3c491e5c2808d9bf4e9dc5%7C05894af0cb2846d8871674cdb46e2226%7C0%7C0%7C637751168309659999%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Wsd38z3IS7%2FaqTyJkGPUkncKamWvN1IwGXTun%2F7NpTI%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://shut.up.IMP.2.SG</a>>=2.SG.OBJ
3.SG.REFL.POSS <br>
> <a href="http://donkey.M.SG"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">donkey.M.SG</a>
<<a
href="https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdonkey.m.sg%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmaia.ponsonnet%40uwa.edu.au%7Ccc94c4625b3c491e5c2808d9bf4e9dc5%7C05894af0cb2846d8871674cdb46e2226%7C0%7C0%7C637751168309659999%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DAnllkzoCwHEhKOA07WYqh25abAsY2i7%2Fp4%2Bmj134VM%3D&reserved=0"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://donkey.M.SG</a>><br>
> 'Shut up, you idiot!'<br>
> <br>
> (Where, funnily enough, the third
person of the adjective/determiner is <br>
> presumably the polite form!) This
is an interesting case, I think, <br>
> because as far as I can see you
never use /seu/sua /in 'plain' <br>
> vocatives, nor with terms of
endearment, nor, for that matter, with
NPs <br>
> which are not used as invocations.<br>
> <br>
> I am wondering whether anyone is
aware of a language which has some <br>
> grammaticalized form or
construction that can be used in this
specific <br>
> way. Note that I am not interested
in, say, abusive pronouns or <br>
> honorifics or general expressions
of the speaker's disappointment <br>
> ('frustrative' markers) but only in
grammaticalized means of marking the <br>
> speech act as an insult.<br>
> <br>
> Many thanks in advance and best
wishes to all,<br>
> Riccardo<br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> Riccardo Giomi, Ph.D.<br>
> University of Liège<br>
> Département de langues modernes :
linguistique, littérature et traduction<br>
> Research group /Linguistique
contrastive et typologie des langues/<br>
> F.R.S.-FNRS Postdoctoral fellow (CR
- FC 43095)<br>
> //<br>
> <br>
>
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