<html><head></head><body><div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;"><div>Dear Mohammad,</div>
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<div>If this is truly restricted to second person, I recommend looking at egophoricity and related categories. In languages with egophoric marking, there is a special form that usually refers to a first person but in questions shifts to the second person instead. You can find some information here, e.g.</div>
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<div>San Roque, Lila, Simeon Floyd & Elisabeth Norcliffe. 2018. Egophoricity. An introduction. In Simeon Floyd, Elisabeth Norcliffe & Lila San Roque (eds.), Egophoricity, 1–77. Amsterdam: Benjamins.</div>
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<div>I have listed a few languages without true egophoricity but special markings for questions referring to second person in a recent presentation (including Turkic languages):</div>
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<div>https://www.academia.edu/63176111/Morphosyntactic_asymmetries_in_question_answer_sequences_Egophoricity_and_beyond</div>
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<div>But Turkic languages (including Turkish) usually employ sentence-final markers. The initial position looks more like an areal feature linking the marker to other Iranian languages (e.g., Tajik oyo, Kurdish āyā, Arabic hal etc.) or languages towards the South and East of the dialect you are looking at. See Dryer's map:</div>
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<div>https://wals.info/feature/92A#2/23.7/126.9</div>
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<div>For content question marking you could have a look at my book, but this is mostly concerned with languages in Northeast Asia:</div>
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<div>https://langsci-press.org/catalog/book/174</div>
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<div>I am not familiar with this form of Persian at all, but could this be understood as being derived from something like 'Would you (happen to) see (know) whether XY?'?</div>
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<div>Best,</div>
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<div>Andi</div>
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<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Donnerstag, 16. Dezember 2021 um 11:47 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> mrasekhmahand@yahoo.com<br/>
<b>An:</b> hoelzlandreas@web.de<br/>
<b>Cc:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: Aw: [Lingtyp] content question maarker</div>
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<div>Dear Andi,
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<div>Thank you for your reply.</div>
<div>The word 'bini' is originally the second person form of the verb 'didan' (to see) in subjunctive form. But it is fixed in this usage and the other forms are not used as question maker. Just the second person form is changed to question marker. It cannot be used in alternative questions. It is used in Hamedani Persian, actually a geographical variety used in a western city, surrounded by Turkish language. I don't know if it could be borrowed from Turkish or not? I found nothing about the verbal origin of question particles. Could I ask for any reference regarding your explanation to look at?</div>
<div>Best</div>
<div>Mohammad</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On 16 Dec 2021 13:37, hoelzlandreas@web.de wrote:
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<div>Dear Mohammad,</div>
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<div>Thank you for this question and the data.</div>
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<div>Yes, "double marking" in content questions (if it actually is double marking) is attested in quite a number of languages. In Northeast Asia, I found this attested in over 40% of the languages I looked at (e.g., Japanese, Korean, Mongolian, Yakut, Yukaghir etc.).</div>
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<div>If bin-i is truly a question marker, this also shows an interesting distribution that I tried to show with a semantic map (conceptual space) earlier. For Northeast Asia I found that over 70% of the languages do not use the same marking in polar and content questions. The most common type I found has polar question marking and unmarked content questions (except for the interrogative). But the same question marking can be found, for instance, in Japanese, Korean, Ainu, some Tungusic languages, some Mongolic languages etc. Can bin-i also occur in alternative questions or embedded questions?</div>
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<div>Is the marker only attested for second person? If yes, there is a cross-linguistic tendency for questions showing some sort of connection to second person (e.g., egophoricity). There are also several languages that do have a distinct marker for questions referrring to a second person (e.g., Qiang, transitive verbs in West Greenlandic, Kazakh, Dime etc.).</div>
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<div>The initial position of the question marker could be an areal feature (see Dryer's map in WALS).</div>
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<div>Verbs are not among the common sources for the grammaticalization of question markers in Northeast Asia, but I am not sure about other parts of the world. (More common developments might be OR > Q, NEG > Q, WHAT/WHICH/... > Q, NMLZ > Q etc.)</div>
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<div>I am not entirely certain about this construction in Persian, but questions of course have a connection to knowledge and seeing shows diachronic connections to this (e.g., German wissen 'to know < to have seen'). What variety of Persian is this?</div>
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<div>Best,</div>
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<div>Andi</div>
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<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Donnerstag, 16. Dezember 2021 um 08:33 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "mohammad rasekh" <mrasekhmahand@yahoo.com><br/>
<b>An:</b> "LINGTYP LINGTYP" <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> [Lingtyp] content question maarker</div>
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<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;">Dear all,</div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;">A student of mine while gathering a spoken corpus for a geographical variety of Persian has noticed that this variety is using a fixed form of the verb to see, 'bin-i' (see-2SG) as polar question marker (1) and in content questions (2,3) along with wh-word:</div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;">1) bin-i miy-<i><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;line-height: 115.0%;font-family: "times new roman" , serif;color: black;">ād?</span></i></div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;"> see-2SG come-3SG</div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;">'Does s/he come?'</div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;">2) bin-i koj<i><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;line-height: 115.0%;font-family: "times new roman" , serif;color: black;">ā-st?</span></i></div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;"><i><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;line-height: 115.0%;font-family: "times new roman" , serif;color: black;"> see-2SG where-be.3SG</span></i></div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;"><i><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;line-height: 115.0%;font-family: "times new roman" , serif;color: black;"> 'Where is s/he?'</span></i></div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;"> </div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0,0,0);font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;font-size: 16.0px;">3) bin-i <i><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;line-height: 115.0%;font-family: "times new roman" , serif;color: black;">ši <i><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;line-height: 115.0%;font-family: "times new roman" , serif;color: black;">šod-e?</span></i></span></i></span></div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0,0,0);font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;font-size: 16.0px;"><i><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;line-height: 115.0%;font-family: "times new roman" , serif;color: black;"><i><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;line-height: 115.0%;font-family: "times new roman" , serif;color: black;"> see-2SG what become-3SG</span></i></span></i></span></div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0,0,0);font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;font-size: 16.0px;"><i><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;line-height: 115.0%;font-family: "times new roman" , serif;color: black;"><i><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;line-height: 115.0%;font-family: "times new roman" , serif;color: black;"> 'What happened?'</span></i></span></i></span></div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;"> </div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(0,0,0);font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;font-size: 16.0px;">Two questions:</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(0,0,0);font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;font-size: 16.0px;">First: Is there any other language which uses a polar question marker originating from verb?</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(0,0,0);font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;font-size: 16.0px;">Second: Is double marking of content questions attested?</span></div>
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<div><span style="color: rgb(0,0,0);font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;font-size: 16.0px;">All the best,</span></div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(0,0,0);font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;font-size: 16.0px;">Mohammad </span></div>
<div style="font-family: garamond , "new york" , times , serif;"> </div>
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<div><font color="#4c76a2" face="verdana, helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">Mohammad Rasekh-Mahand </font></div>
<div><font color="#4c76a2" face="verdana, helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">Linguistics Department,</font></div>
<div><font color="#4c76a2" face="verdana, helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">Bu-Ali Sina University, </font></div>
<div><font color="#4c76a2" face="verdana, helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">Hamedan, Iran.</font></div>
<div><font color="#4c76a2" face="verdana, helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">Postal Code: 6517838695 </font></div>
<div><a href="https://basu.academia.edu/MohammadRasekhmahand" target="_blank"><font color="#4c76a2" face="verdana, helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">https://basu.academia.edu/MohammadRasekhmahand</font></a></div>
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