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<p>Dear Mohammad,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear all<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Below there is some selected literature on expletive negation. In temporal clauses, negation is common especially in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">=’before’: extremely widespread cross-linguistically, see e.g. Hetterle’s (2015) typological monograph.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">=’until’: seems to be very restricted areally, mainly Eastern Europe & Caucasus and South Asia (Indo-Aryan and Indo-sphere Sino-Tibetan), but also Paumarí (maybe due to influence from Portuguese
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">enquanto...não</i> ?). In Eastern Europe and in Indo-Aryan, this seems to be a parallel rather recent development (i.e. not going back to Indo-European). An interesting question is how the possible areal relationship between
modern Indo-Aryan and Indo-sphere Sino-Tibetan looks like: “as long as not” for ‘until’ is very common in some Sino-Tibetan languages. I think it is an interesting question as to what extent this may be due to contact with modern Indo-Aryan languages.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">=”as soon as”: and there seems to be least typological research about this, but it is probably not at all uncommon with different sorts of constructions with negation strategies in “as soon as”, as e.g. in Turkish the -r -mez converb construction
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">ben oturur oturmaz telefon </i><i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">ç</span>ald</i><i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">ı</span></i><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">
‘as soon as I sat down, the telephone rang’ “I sitting.down not.sitting.down telefon rang” (Lewis 2000: 182).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think part of the explanation of where expletive negation can be found in temporal clauses is the following:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">=Temporal clauses are temporal in two senses: a) related to time and b) not-permanent. A temporal clause cannot express a permanent state, but negation is not compatible with temporal clauses – to the extent it is not semantically phasal
(“not yet” or “no longer”; cf. Heinämäki’s 1974: 183 example: <i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">
When the lights were not on, we took a nap.</i> cannot mean that the lights were never on, negation must be interpreted phasally here, that the lights probably were on most for of the time or at least quite often.). Which opens up for negation markers being
used for other senses than polarity in temporal clauses.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">=Negation expresses non-identity rather than identity. In temporal clauses, simultaneous is identity of events and posterior and anterior is non-identity of events. It would be utterly strange if negation was used in simultaneous temporal
clauses (‘when, while’), I do not know of a single example of this and wonder whether there are any. It is, however, very clearly understandable that negation can be deployed for posterior meanings (‘before’ and ‘until’) and for some anterior ones (especially
‘as soon as’) since posterior and anterior is non-identity of times.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Some selected literature on expletive negation:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Abels, Klaus.<span style="font-variant:small-caps"> 2005. </span>
“Expletive negation” in Russian: a conspiracy theory. <i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">
Journal of Slavic Linguistics</i> 13.1, 5<span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">–</span>74.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Espinal, M. Teresa. 2000. Expletive negation, negative concord and feature checking.
<i><span style="background:white">Catalan Working Papers in Linguistics</span></i><span style="background:white"> 8: 47-69.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:
minor-latin;background:white">Greco, M. 2020. On the syntax of surprise negation sentences: A case study on expletive negation. <i>Natural Language & Linguistic Theory</i> <i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">38</i>(3),
775–825.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Iordanskaja, L. & I. Mel’<span style="mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman"">č</span>uk. 2009. Semantics of the Russian conjunction
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">poka</i> ‘while, before, until’. <span lang="DE" style="mso-ansi-language:DE">
In T. Berger, M. Giger, S. Kurt & I. Mendoza, Hg., <i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">
Von grammatischen Kategorien und sprachlichen Weltbildern – Die Slavia von der Sprachgeschichte bis zur Politsprache</i>.
</span>Wiener Slawistischer Almanach. Sonderband 73, 253<span style="mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">–</span>262. München.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="background:white">Jin, Y. and Koenig, J.P., 2020. A cross-linguistic study of expletive negation. </span> Linguistic Typology 2021; 25(1): 39–78.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-theme-font:
minor-latin">Wälchli, B. 2018/2019. ‘As long as’,’until’ and ‘before’ clauses.
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">Baltic Linguistics</i> <i style="mso-bidi-font-style:
normal">
9</i>, 141–236. <a href="http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1351829/FULLTEXT01.pdf" id="LPlnk801723" previewremoved="true">
http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1351829/FULLTEXT01.pdf</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Further references<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:14.2pt;text-indent:-14.2pt"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Heinämäki, Orvokki Tellervo. 1974.
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">Semantics of English temporal clauses</i>. Ph.D. thesis. The University of Texas at Austin.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:14.2pt;text-indent:-14.2pt"><span lang="DE" style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-ansi-language:DE">Hetterle, Katja. 2015.
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:
normal">Adverbial Clauses in Cross-Linguistic Perspective</i>. Berlin: De Grutyer Mouton.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:14.2pt;text-indent:-14.2pt"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"">Lewis, Geoffrey. 2000.
<i>Turkish Grammar</i>. 2<sup>nd</sup> edition. Oxford: Oxford University Press.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:14.2pt;text-indent:-14.2pt"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bernhard <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of ROBERT Stephane <stephane.robert@cnrs.fr><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nigel Vincent; Françoise Rose; mohammad rasekh; LINGTYP LINGTYP<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Fariba Sabouri<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Negation marks adverbial clauses</font>
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<p>Dear Mohammad, <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Nigel is absolutely right about the restriction of the negation to its first part (<i>ne</i>) in Françoise French example. However French also has another construction using the complete (discontinuous) negation (<i>ne...pas</i>)
<span>and using a temporal adverb</span>, which seems to me be to be even closer to your Persian example 1:</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p></p>
<div><i>Il <b>n</b>’a/eut <b>pas</b> plus tôt répondu à son supérieur <b>qu</b>’il a quitté la salle</i></div>
<div>he <b>NEG1</b> has/had <b>NEG2</b> more early responded to his superior <b>COMP</b> he left the room<br>
</div>
<div><span>"No sooner had he responded to his superior than he left the room" <br>
</span></div>
<div><b style=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:16.0pt; font-family:Symbol"><span style="font-size:10pt">~</span></span></b><b style=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:16.0pt"></span></b> "as soon as he (had) responded to his superior, he left the
room "<br>
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<p></p>
<p><span>Two points seem important to me in this negative construction <span>which emphasizes the immediacy of the second event in relation to the first: the presence of the temporal adverbial in the comparative form
<i>plus tôt</i> 'sooner' and the complementizer (<i>que</i>). The two (<i>no sooner E1 that E1</i>) form a correlative structure.</span></span><br>
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<div>Best</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Stéphane<br>
</div>
<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>De :</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> de la part de Nigel Vincent <nigel.vincent@manchester.ac.uk><br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mercredi 12 janvier 2022 10:29<br>
<b>À :</b> Françoise Rose; mohammad rasekh; LINGTYP LINGTYP<br>
<b>Cc :</b> Fariba Sabouri<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Negation marks adverbial clauses</font>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
In relation to the French example it should perhaps be added that in a clause with 'avant' only the first part of the negation marker 'ne…pas' occurs. Contrast 'elle n'arrive pas' and 'avant qu'elle n'arrive', where the first is ungrammatical without 'pas'
and the second is ungrammatical with 'pas' (or so I was taught!).</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Perhaps also relevant to Mohammad's question is the use of the Latin negative purposive complementizer
<i>ne</i> 'in order that … not' as the marker of the complement of a verb of fearing (cf the volume referred to in an earlier post in this thread).<br>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Nigel<br>
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<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE<br>
Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics<br>
The University of Manchester</div>
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<div>Linguistics & English Language<br>
School of Arts, Languages and Cultures<br>
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https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Françoise Rose <francoise.rose@univ-lyon2.fr><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 12 January 2022 9:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> mohammad rasekh <mrasekhmahand@yahoo.com>; LINGTYP LINGTYP <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Fariba Sabouri <faribasabouri@gmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Negation marks adverbial clauses</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Dear Mohammad,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">this is a very common phenomenon in (rather formal) French:</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">avant qu’elle n’arrive, ….
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">before she arrives (lit. before she does not arrive)</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Unfortunately, I don’t have any reading recommendation on the topic!</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Best,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Françoise ROSE (fʁɑ̃swɑz ʁoz)</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Directrice de Recherches 2<sup>ème</sup> classe, CNRS</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Laboratoire Dynamique Du Langage (CNRS/Université Lyon2)</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">16 avenue Berthelot</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">69007 Lyon</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">FRANCE</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F4E79">www.ddl.cnrs.fr/ROSE</span><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F4E79"></span></i></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org>
<b>De la part de</b> mohammad rasekh<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mardi 11 janvier 2022 16:18<br>
<b>À :</b> LINGTYP LINGTYP <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Cc :</b> Fariba Sabouri <faribasabouri@gmail.com><br>
<b>Objet :</b> [Lingtyp] Negation marks adverbial clauses</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">Dear All,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">I hope you have started a happy new year.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">In the corpus of one of my students in Hamedani Persian (a variety spoken in Hamedan, west of Iran), we have found some adverbial clauses in which the verb is marked by negative prefix, but it
does not mean negative. These adverbial clauses mark Time (meaning 'as soon as') and Reason, or both at the same time. Some examples:</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"> </span></p>
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<p class="x_ydp24f6f745msolistparagraph" style="line-height:200%"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:200%; font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:black">1.</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:7.0pt; line-height:200%; color:black">
</span><i><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:200%; font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:black; background:white">i ke kur
<b>na</b></span></i><b><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">-šod</span></i></b><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">, man diye ruz-e xoš na-didam</span></i><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
<p class="x_ydp24f6f745msolistparagraph" style="line-height:200%"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:200%"> he that blind NEG-become, I anymore day-EZ happy NEG-see-1SG
</span><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:200%"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:200%"> As soon as he got blind, I had no good times.</span><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_ydpa53b1b4fmsolistparagraph" style="line-height:200%">2.<span style="font-size:7.0pt; line-height:200%"> </span><i><span lang="EN-US">das ke
<b>ne-mi-ke</b></span></i><b><i><span lang="EN-US">š</span></i></b><b><i><span lang="EN-US">-i</span></i></b><i><span lang="EN-US"> ru har</span></i><i><span lang="EN-US">č</span></i><i><span lang="EN-US">i,
x</span></i><i><span lang="EN-US">ā</span></i><i><span lang="EN-US">k-e</span></i><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
<p class="x_ydpa53b1b4fmsolistparagraph" style="line-height:200%"><span lang="EN-US"> hand that NEG-IND-touch-2SG over everything, dirty-BE.3SG</span><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
<p class="x_ydpa53b1b4fmsolistparagraph" style="line-height:200%"><span lang="EN-US"> As you touch everything, it is dirty.</span><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:200%"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">I wonder if there is any other language in which the adverbial clause is negative in form but not in meaning. I searched to find some evidence or some sources which mention
this, but I was not successful. I appreciate your comments.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:200%"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">Best regards,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:200%"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">Mohammad </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"> </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#4C76A2">Mohammad Rasekh-Mahand </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#4C76A2">Linguistics Department,</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#4C76A2">Bu-Ali Sina University, </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#4C76A2">Hamedan, Iran.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#4C76A2">Postal Code: 6517838695 </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Garamond",serif"><a href="https://basu.academia.edu/MohammadRasekhmahand" target="_blank" id="LPlnk127679" previewremoved="true"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#4C76A2">https://basu.academia.edu/MohammadRasekhmahand<br>
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