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<p>Dear Mohammad, <br>
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<p>Nigel is absolutely right about the restriction of the negation to its first part (<i>ne</i>) in Françoise French example. However French also has another construction using the complete (discontinuous) negation (<i>ne...pas</i>)
<span>and using a temporal adverb</span>, which seems to me be to be even closer to your Persian example 1:</p>
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<div><i>Il <b>n</b>’a/eut <b>pas</b> plus tôt répondu à son supérieur <b>qu</b>’il a quitté la salle</i></div>
<div>he <b>NEG1</b> has/had <b>NEG2</b> more early responded to his superior <b>COMP</b> he left the room<br>
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<div><span>"No sooner had he responded to his superior than he left the room" <br>
</span></div>
<div><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;mso-ascii-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-char-type:symbol;mso-symbol-font-family:
Symbol" lang="EN-US"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">~</span></span></b><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"></span></b>
"as soon as he (had) responded to his superior, he left the room "<br>
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<p><span>Two points seem important to me in this negative construction <span>which emphasizes the immediacy of the second event in relation to the first: the presence of the temporal adverbial in the comparative form
<i>plus tôt</i> 'sooner' and the complementizer (<i>que</i>). The two (<i>no sooner E1 that E1</i>) form a correlative structure.</span></span><br>
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<div>Best</div>
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<div>Stéphane<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>De :</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> de la part de Nigel Vincent <nigel.vincent@manchester.ac.uk><br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mercredi 12 janvier 2022 10:29<br>
<b>À :</b> Françoise Rose; mohammad rasekh; LINGTYP LINGTYP<br>
<b>Cc :</b> Fariba Sabouri<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Negation marks adverbial clauses</font>
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In relation to the French example it should perhaps be added that in a clause with 'avant' only the first part of the negation marker 'ne…pas' occurs. Contrast 'elle n'arrive pas' and 'avant qu'elle n'arrive', where the first is ungrammatical without 'pas'
and the second is ungrammatical with 'pas' (or so I was taught!).</div>
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Perhaps also relevant to Mohammad's question is the use of the Latin negative purposive complementizer
<i>ne</i> 'in order that … not' as the marker of the complement of a verb of fearing (cf the volume referred to in an earlier post in this thread).<br>
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Nigel<br>
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<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA MAE<br>
Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics<br>
The University of Manchester</div>
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<div>Linguistics & English Language<br>
School of Arts, Languages and Cultures<br>
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<div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>The University of Manchester</div>
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https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/researchers/nigel-vincent(f973a991-8ece-453e-abc5-3ca198c869dc).html</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Françoise Rose <francoise.rose@univ-lyon2.fr><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 12 January 2022 9:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> mohammad rasekh <mrasekhmahand@yahoo.com>; LINGTYP LINGTYP <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Fariba Sabouri <faribasabouri@gmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Negation marks adverbial clauses</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Dear Mohammad,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">this is a very common phenomenon in (rather formal) French:</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">avant qu’elle n’arrive, ….
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">before she arrives (lit. before she does not arrive)</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Unfortunately, I don’t have any reading recommendation on the topic!</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Best,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Françoise ROSE (fʁɑ̃swɑz ʁoz)</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Directrice de Recherches 2<sup>ème</sup> classe, CNRS</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Laboratoire Dynamique Du Langage (CNRS/Université Lyon2)</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">16 avenue Berthelot</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">69007 Lyon</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">FRANCE</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F4E79" lang="EN-US">www.ddl.cnrs.fr/ROSE</span><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F4E79" lang="EN-US"></span></i></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org>
<b>De la part de</b> mohammad rasekh<br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mardi 11 janvier 2022 16:18<br>
<b>À :</b> LINGTYP LINGTYP <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Cc :</b> Fariba Sabouri <faribasabouri@gmail.com><br>
<b>Objet :</b> [Lingtyp] Negation marks adverbial clauses</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">Dear All,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">I hope you have started a happy new year.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">In the corpus of one of my students in Hamedani Persian (a variety spoken in Hamedan, west of Iran), we have found some adverbial clauses in which the verb is marked by negative prefix, but it
does not mean negative. These adverbial clauses mark Time (meaning 'as soon as') and Reason, or both at the same time. Some examples:</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"> </span></p>
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<p class="x_ydp24f6f745msolistparagraph" style="line-height:200%"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:200%; font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:black" lang="EN-GB">1.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt; line-height:200%; color:black" lang="EN-GB">
</span><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:200%; font-family:"Garamond",serif; color:black; background:white" lang="EN-GB">i ke kur
<b>na</b></span></i><b><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">-šod</span></i></b><i><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">, man diye ruz-e xoš na-didam</span></i><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
<p class="x_ydp24f6f745msolistparagraph" style="line-height:200%"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:200%" lang="EN-GB"> he that blind NEG-become, I anymore day-EZ happy NEG-see-1SG
</span><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:200%"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; line-height:200%" lang="EN-GB"> As soon as he got blind, I had no good times.</span><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_ydpa53b1b4fmsolistparagraph" style="line-height:200%">2.<span style="font-size:7.0pt; line-height:200%"> </span><i><span lang="EN-US">das ke
<b>ne-mi-ke</b></span></i><b><i><span lang="EN-US">š</span></i></b><b><i><span lang="EN-US">-i</span></i></b><i><span lang="EN-US"> ru har</span></i><i><span lang="EN-US">č</span></i><i><span lang="EN-US">i,
x</span></i><i><span lang="EN-US">ā</span></i><i><span lang="EN-US">k-e</span></i><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
<p class="x_ydpa53b1b4fmsolistparagraph" style="line-height:200%"><span lang="EN-US"> hand that NEG-IND-touch-2SG over everything, dirty-BE.3SG</span><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
<p class="x_ydpa53b1b4fmsolistparagraph" style="line-height:200%"><span lang="EN-US"> As you touch everything, it is dirty.</span><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:200%"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">I wonder if there is any other language in which the adverbial clause is negative in form but not in meaning. I searched to find some evidence or some sources which mention
this, but I was not successful. I appreciate your comments.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:200%"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">Best regards,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:200%"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif">Mohammad </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Garamond",serif"> </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#4C76A2">Mohammad Rasekh-Mahand </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#4C76A2">Linguistics Department,</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#4C76A2">Bu-Ali Sina University, </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#4C76A2">Hamedan, Iran.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#4C76A2">Postal Code: 6517838695 </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Garamond",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Garamond",serif"><a href="https://basu.academia.edu/MohammadRasekhmahand" target="_blank" id="LPlnk127679" previewremoved="true"><span style="font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; color:#4C76A2">https://basu.academia.edu/MohammadRasekhmahand<br>
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