<div dir="ltr">Yahgan (genetic isolate, Tierra del Fuego), HAS a verb 'give' of the shape ta:gu: (colon marks tenseness of the vowel preceding it), but it seems to be itself constructed out of ata 'take, carry, convey', and a:gu:, a reversive suffix that can be internally reconstructed from lexical data not mentioned by previous workers, which may be from akum 'come'. The language is very rich in SVCs involving free morphemes.<div><br></div><div>Jess Tauber</div><div><a href="mailto:tetrahedralpt@gmail.com">tetrahedralpt@gmail.com</a></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 3:41 AM Guillaume Jacques <<a href="mailto:rgyalrongskad@gmail.com">rgyalrongskad@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Dear all,</div><div><br></div><div>I have an example which is not what Matthew's colleague is looking for, since the language in question (Japhug, Sino-Tibetan) has several verbs meaning "to give", but I thought it is a fun phenomenon, and I would be interested to know whether something similar can be found elsewhere.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Japhug has a compound verb of co-participation <i>a-mɟɤ-kʰo</i> which precisely means "give and take" (built from <i>mɟa</i> "take, pick up", <i>kʰo</i> "give, pass over" and <i>a</i>- is a prefix used to express reciprocal). It is morphologically intransitive (though it takes a non-indexed semi-object) and requires a non-singular subject, encompassing both the giver and the recipient, in the 3du in example (1).<br></div><div><br></div><div>(1) tɤ-rɟit nɯ ɲɯ-ɤmɟɤkʰo-ndʑi<br>indef.poss-child dem ipfv-give.and.take-2/3du</div><div> "She𝑖 hands the child𝑗 to him𝑘 and he𝑘 takes him𝑗" (literally "The two of them give-and-take the child", Jacques 2021: 915-916, <a href="https://langsci-press.org/catalog/book/295" target="_blank">https://langsci-press.org/catalog/book/295</a>)<br></div><div><br></div><div>I would be glad if anyone knows of a similar construction somewhere.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Guillaume<br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le jeu. 27 janv. 2022 à 06:38, Russell Barlow <<a href="mailto:russell_barlow@eva.mpg.de" target="_blank">russell_barlow@eva.mpg.de</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
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Dear Matthew, all,
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I describe 'give' events in Ulwa (Papua New Guinea) a bit (Barlow 2018: 285-289). They are encoded with two verbs, one meaning 'take', the other meaning, well, 'give' (?) (I can't say 'present', as in your example "I presented the book (to him) and he took it", since the object of the second verb is a Recipient, not a Theme). I think 'give' constructions as are found in Ulwa occur fairly commonly in Papuan languages, although, as Daniel points out, they're hard to spot, since almost invariably the grammar writer glosses one of the verbs as 'give'.
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So Ulwa, like Akan (?) in Daniel's example, uses two verbs for 'give' events. Also as in that example, the object of one verb is a Theme, while the object of the other verb is a Recipient. If your colleague is specifically looking for constructions where *both* verbs take (only) a Theme argument, then I don't know of any such languages offhand. I, too, would be very interested in seeing some examples of that!
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Best,
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Russell
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Barlow, Russell. 2018. A grammar of Ulwa. (Doctoral dissertation, University of Hawai'i at Mānoa; xiv+546pp.)
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<p>Russell Barlow<br>Postdoctoral Researcher<br>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology<br>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution<br><a href="mailto:russell_barlow@eva.mpg.de" target="_blank">russell_barlow@eva.mpg.de</a></p>
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On 01/27/2022 5:25 AM Daniel Ross <<a href="mailto:djross3@gmail.com" target="_blank">djross3@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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Dear Matthew,
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This is a common pattern for languages with serial verb constructions, along the lines of "take book give him", etc. There has been a lot written about the lack of argument structure in these languages (some claiming that three arguments are not possible in some languages), and that SVCs can supplement that argument structure (and possibly a small inventory of verbs, according to some sources). I'm not as confident in some of the more extreme claims about this, but it is clear that this pattern is widespread among many of these languages (I know I've seen explicit claims for West Africa and creoles, and probably elsewhere). At the same time, it is not clear that these languages, strictly speaking, lack a lexical verb "give", since one of the verbs in this construction can be translated as such, although it is used with another verb (often 'take') to supplement it for the full argument structure. Other patterns are found too, and probably various other lexical verbs are used in a function like 'give', so it becomes a question of lexical translation. (This more generally is related to patterns of verbs in SVCs developing into prepositions.)
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I'm sorry I don't immediately have any specific languages/references in mind, but let me know if you'd like me to try to find some. I know that Sebba 1987 discusses this in some detail, and here's one example:
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ɔde sekaŋ no mãã me
<br>he-take knife the give-PAST me
<br>'S/he gave me the knife' [originally from Christaller 1875: 118]
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Sebba, Mark. 1987. The syntax of serial verbs: an investigation into serialisation in Sranan and other languages. Amsterdam: John Benjamins. <a href="https://doi.org/10.1075/cll.2" target="_blank">https://doi.org/10.1075/cll.2</a>
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(Tangential note: SVCs like this are generally considered <em>monoclausal</em>, by a variety of metrics, so I wouldn't call this "two analytic clauses", although the effect is the same. My dissertation thoroughly reviews the issue of monoclausality: <a href="https://doi.org/10.5281/zenodo.5546425" target="_blank">https://doi.org/10.5281/zenodo.5546425</a> -- but I don't discuss this specific question about 'give'.)
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Finally, one extra comment, which is probably not what your colleague is after, is that there are some languages where the lexical verb 'give' is (at least in some cases) a zero root or null morpheme, i.e. indicated by lack of phonological content plus other inflectional morphology. This is discussed for some PNG languages here:
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<a href="https://www.academia.edu/40037774/Comrie_B_and_R_Zamponi_2019_Verb_root_ellipsis_In_Morphological_perspectives_papers_in_honour_of_Greville_G_Corbett_ed_by_M_Baerman_O_Bond_and_A_Hippisley_Edinburgh_Edinburgh_University_Press_pp_233_280" target="_blank">https://www.academia.edu/40037774/Comrie_B_and_R_Zamponi_2019_Verb_root_ellipsis_In_Morphological_perspectives_papers_in_honour_of_Greville_G_Corbett_ed_by_M_Baerman_O_Bond_and_A_Hippisley_Edinburgh_Edinburgh_University_Press_pp_233_280</a>
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Daniel
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On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 7:43 PM Matthew Dryer <<a href="mailto:dryer@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">dryer@buffalo.edu</a>> wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_-5806842848627043868_m_2693695585039134828_m_9006019862080693940__GoBack"></a>I am sending this query on behalf of a colleague.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">He wants to know <span style="color:black">whether anyone knows of a language that lacks a "give" type verb and would express something like "I gave him the book" instead as something like "I presented the book (to him) and he took it". That is, is there a language that can only express a give-type concept with two more analytic clauses?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Matthew Dryer<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Guillaume Jacques</div><div><br></div><div>Directeur de recherches<br>CNRS (CRLAO) - EPHE- INALCO <br></div><div><a href="https://scholar.google.fr/citations?user=1XCp2-oAAAAJ&hl=fr" target="_blank">https://scholar.google.fr/citations?user=1XCp2-oAAAAJ&hl=fr</a><br></div><div><a href="http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques" target="_blank">https://langsci-press.org/catalog/book/295</a></div><div><div><a href="http://panchr.hypotheses.org/" target="_blank">http://panchr.hypotheses.org/</a></div></div></div></div>
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