<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div id="appendonsend"></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Regarding the reason why inalienable markings are generally shorter than those for alienable possessions, Martin has mentioned two explanations. One is frequency-induced economy: frequent items tend to be of simpler structure, the other is iconicity: closer
relations are marked with tighter structures.</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
It seems to me that we do not have to choose one explanation over the other: both may be operative. Frequency-induced economy may account for the historical origin of these constructions while iconicity may motivate their persistence. In other words, the shorter
forms of inalienable markers that have arisen from frequency may appeal to the language learner/user and thus they may become entrenched.<br>
<br>
Edith Moravcsik<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Martin Haspelmath <martin_haspelmath@eva.mpg.de><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 31, 2022 4:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Phonological differences of alienable vs. inalienable possession</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>Haiman (1983; 1985) was the first to propose a highly general explanation of alienability contrasts, but it appears that the generalization is the following:<br>
<br>
If a language has different adpossessive constructions for inalienable (i.e. kinship and/or body-part) nouns and alienable (i.e. other) nouns and if the grammatical coding is asymmetric, the coding is shorter for inalienable nouns.<br>
<br>
"Shorter coding" most often means lack of a marker with inalienable nouns (as opposed to presence of a marker for alienable nouns), but it can also mean that the marker is shorter, or that the adpossessive person forms are shorter (as in the Hungarian contrast
between -a and ja, mentioned by Edith Moravcsik, or the Italian contrast between mio and -mo, mentioned by Nigel Vincent). Haiman attributed the difference to "iconic motivation", but frequency-induced predictability ("economic motivation") is probably a better
explanation (<a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.degruyter.com%2Fdocument%2Fdoi%2F10.1515%2Fzfs-2017-0009%2Fhtml&data=04%7C01%7Cedith%40uwm.edu%7Ce1773b0324804397fa2708d9e4a42fd7%7C0bca7ac3fcb64efd89eb6de97603cf21%7C0%7C0%7C637792217159376246%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=7F3biFDb7Q26ra4%2FDEUmShaVk706V611bPprzge95So%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/zfs-2017-0009/html" shash="XhkfTJGyJlG7KwEB+RbjxRmXm1csS8RC8LHjTL5uRZ74jYR7loRXH+reGGWgc6cDwdiJm4jH4vY0kOibvmIJ2+LcNNiRMX73N+RcoWe6zcvGqyMcf8VkIdl0g53VFVQ2QrpeydptYkcyxSG651hD+TAm6XN/+qBm24ZGKcO2XKM=">Haspelmath
2017</a>). (There was a recent LSA talk by Lelia Glass that confirmed the frequency asymmetries that I had observed:
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Flelia_glass%2Fstatus%2F1479083599186075649&data=04%7C01%7Cedith%40uwm.edu%7Ce1773b0324804397fa2708d9e4a42fd7%7C0bca7ac3fcb64efd89eb6de97603cf21%7C0%7C0%7C637792217159376246%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=dZ%2BqGAOegofYlLF%2Fs7Ecssl0CFvKh919QCOh3nviJiM%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://twitter.com/lelia_glass/status/1479083599186075649" shash="L5TBrUNrzjMk2YmqaniuT9fTIO7rdWTPF5JTi1UO4HUhXlYtSUboZ4iPkq3RSN4ezQIQSbPFXyvsEOM/ZpSuP2/n3q15zNI7/xcRA8uxKS1d7bdr8pF5gYehXjMNMlk46Go74DgOZ4/Rl8lKff5w0NxBHjXD+mGBU5RbIyWUY7E=">
https://twitter.com/lelia_glass/status/1479083599186075649</a>)<br>
<br>
It seems that the generalization above, in terms of "coding length", also covers the cases of phonological contrasts that we find (e.g. the contrast noted for Ojibwe by Marie-Luise Popp: "In Ojibwe, vowel hiatus is resolved via consonant epenthesis in alienable
possession, but via deletion in inalienable <br>
possession.")<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">Am 31.01.22 um 08:41 schrieb TasakuTsunoda:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<div class="x_WordSection1">
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US" style=""> 2022/01/31</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="">Dear Colleague,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US" style=""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US" style=""> The following work may be relevant.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US" style=""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="">Haiman, John. 1985. <i>Natural syntax[:] Iconicity and erosion</i>. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US" style=""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="">I don’t have an access to this book now, but if I remember correctly, this book discusses morphosyntactic differences between expressions of alienable possession and those of inalienable possession. It may discuss phonological differences
as well.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US" style=""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="">Best wishes,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US" style=""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="">Tasaku Tsunoda</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"></span><span lang="EN-US">2022/01/28 20:10
</span><span style="font-family:"ＭＳ Ｐゴシック",sans-serif">に、</span><span lang="EN-US">"Lingtyp (Marie-Luise Popp
</span><span style="font-family:"ＭＳ Ｐゴシック",sans-serif">の代理</span><span lang="EN-US">)" <<a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> (<a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:marie_luise.popp@uni-leipzig.de">marie_luise.popp@uni-leipzig.de</a>
</span><span style="font-family:"ＭＳ Ｐゴシック",sans-serif">の代理</span><span lang="EN-US">)>
</span><span style="">を書き込みました</span><span lang="EN-US">:</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> Dear all,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> I'm looking for languages, in which alienable and inalienable possession
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> is marked by the same set (or at least - phonologically similar)
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> exponents, yet do these exponents undergo different phonological
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> processes in alienable vs. inalienable possession.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> In Ojibwe, for example, vowel hiatus is resolved via consonant
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> epenthesis in alienable possession, but via deletion in inalienable
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> possession.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> If anyone knows of more languages of this type, I would be grateful for
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> references and comments.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> Best,</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> Luise (Leipzig University)</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> -- </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> _______________________________________________</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> Lingtyp mailing list</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">
Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoPlainText" style="margin: 0mm; font-size: 18pt; font-family: "lr SVbN", serif;">
<span lang="EN-US"> <a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistserv.linguistlist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flingtyp&data=04%7C01%7Cedith%40uwm.edu%7Ce1773b0324804397fa2708d9e4a42fd7%7C0bca7ac3fcb64efd89eb6de97603cf21%7C0%7C0%7C637792217159376246%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=nt9yC8vvVAmIRkwMkN55rUeb96UtQ7uIgEfQZByzWfU%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" shash="xvysN4hotumPx2Vnt//pXv+Oqsm+c9VlkmWt0VjzumY5aX/i8WUUgmP4uBtUKf654Wds6A1/ZIHqd3ntuN/8srvcPzN0brUBGIFYX80fjqIQ18Po8U0JvwuQRa74A9VFEYG57v6rx4S0UKTmGbMQ0Qu2vPWFIgQVNtphM9PXw+w=">
http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a></span></p>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="x_moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="x_moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistserv.linguistlist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flingtyp&data=04%7C01%7Cedith%40uwm.edu%7Ce1773b0324804397fa2708d9e4a42fd7%7C0bca7ac3fcb64efd89eb6de97603cf21%7C0%7C0%7C637792217159376246%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=nt9yC8vvVAmIRkwMkN55rUeb96UtQ7uIgEfQZByzWfU%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" shash="xvysN4hotumPx2Vnt//pXv+Oqsm+c9VlkmWt0VjzumY5aX/i8WUUgmP4uBtUKf654Wds6A1/ZIHqd3ntuN/8srvcPzN0brUBGIFYX80fjqIQ18Po8U0JvwuQRa74A9VFEYG57v6rx4S0UKTmGbMQ0Qu2vPWFIgQVNtphM9PXw+w=">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="x_moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6
D-04103 Leipzig
<a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eva.mpg.de%2Flinguistic-and-cultural-evolution%2Fstaff%2Fmartin-haspelmath%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cedith%40uwm.edu%7Ce1773b0324804397fa2708d9e4a42fd7%7C0bca7ac3fcb64efd89eb6de97603cf21%7C0%7C0%7C637792217159376246%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=hsFbwHFz8hdg8aHhNIVz%2BF91iQTBoNn2wjlb8YXE04I%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://www.eva.mpg.de/linguistic-and-cultural-evolution/staff/martin-haspelmath/" shash="MWsGKgOOH4JBi0n6GHQOHNocep4gkjP65u9OwLfp2MboMpBkrtbi/f/bAR8EQ6KtFS52Kt9uawsAYQWV3q1agzUkbdydTlkQN1omEpocUDXnQCyixbQkSFSHnFVKUTntY//UIu7PkH0S5dQEzy1AUTjrG1vEwoqhvETn0+EQ0cM=">https://www.eva.mpg.de/linguistic-and-cultural-evolution/staff/martin-haspelmath/</a></pre>
</div>
</body>
</html>