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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hebrew has an adj.
<i>shakul</i> – one who lost a close relative. It must collocate with a noun, and specifically with mother, father, parent (less commonly, with brother and sister). Impossible with grandmother, uncle, grandchild, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Note that a bereaved parent is most likely not symmetric with 'orphan'. An orphan is young. You wouldn't say about an adult that she
<b>is</b> (currently) an orphan. But the <i>shakul </i> adj. can apply till old age.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Empathy, social consequences etc. determine the use, no doubt.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">By the way, Hebrew also has
<i>ariri</i> 'one who has no children' (distinct from <i>akar</i> 'can't have children'). This is also socially consequential. I'm not even sure if a parent who lost their only child would count as
<i>ariri</i> or not. It's certainly not the central meaning, although the consequence is the same – "the family is discontinued". Not surprisingly, this lexeme is disappearing these days.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Mira Ariel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lingtyp [mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jess Tauber<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 16, 2022 3:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Pier Marco Bertinetto <piermarco.bertinetto@sns.it><br>
<b>Cc:</b> list, typology <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Someone whose father ...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Perhaps the loss of a child is far more common in everyday experience (from failed pregnancy to accidents to disease than loss of an adult caregiver. Is there some sort of avoidance issue here leading to the relative rarity of such terminology?
A child is the responsibility of an adult, so losing one is a potentially a stain on their reputation, whereas loss of an adult is generally not usually the fault of the child. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Jess Tauber<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:47 PM Pier Marco Bertinetto <<a href="mailto:piermarco.bertinetto@sns.it">piermarco.bertinetto@sns.it</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Raffaele,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">looking at the issue from the other side (i.e., a child who lost her/his parents), you might consider this rather odd, idiosyncratic lexicalization of Wayana [way, Cariban]:
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i>pikuku-tpë</i> (lit. child-RETROSPECTIVE) = ‘orphan’ (Camargo 2008, ex. 26).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Camargo, Eliane. 2008. Operadores aspectuais de estado marcando o nome en wayana<br>
(caribe). LIAMES 8. 85–104. [Aspectual operators of state marking the noun in Wayana].<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ciao<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Pier Marco<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Il giorno mer 16 feb 2022 alle ore 11:28 Raffaele Simone <<a href="mailto:rsimone@os.uniroma3.it" target="_blank">rsimone@os.uniroma3.it</a>> ha scritto:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p>Dear colleagues, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>words like <i>widower </i>and <i>orphan </i>imply a complex web of relationships. An orphan is someone whose father or mother has died; a widower is someone whose wife or husband has died.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Do you know any language in which there are words that mean "someone to whom a child has died", "someone to whom a brother or sister has died" etc.?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>R Simone<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>===============<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Emeritus Professor, Università Roma Tre<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Hon C Lund University<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Membre de l'Académie Royale de Belgique<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Chevalier de l'Ordre des Arts et des Lettres de France<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Accademico della Crusca<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>===============<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Attività e pubblicazioni // Activity and publications <a href="http://uniroma3.academia.edu/RaffaeleSimone" target="_blank">http://uniroma3.academia.edu/RaffaeleSimone</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>=========================================================<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> |||| Pier Marco Bertinetto<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> ------ professore emerito<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> /////// Scuola Normale Superiore<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> ------- <a href="http://p.za" target="_blank">p.za</a> dei Cavalieri 7<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> /////// I-56126 PISA<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> ------- phone: +39 050 509111 <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> /////// <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> ------- HOME<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> /////// via Matteotti 197<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> ------- I-55049 Viareggio LU<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> /////// phone: +39 0584 652417<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> ------- cell.: +39 368 3830251<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>=========================================================<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> editor of "Italian Journal of Linguistics"<br> webpage <<a href="https://www.sns.it/it/bertinetto-pier-marco" target="_blank">https://www.sns.it/it/bertinetto-pier-marco</a>><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>"Laboratorio di Linguistica" <<a href="http://linguistica.sns.it" target="_blank">http://linguistica.sns.it</a>><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>=========================================================<o:p></o:p></pre>
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