<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi David,</div><div><br></div><div>Don't have time to weigh in at length here, but you may find some relevant discussion (including Austronesian and Mayan, as well as cases from other families) in my 2007 applicatives book.</div><div><br></div><div>Hope you're well,<br></div><div>Dave<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 9:33 PM Jess Tauber <<a href="mailto:tetrahedralpt@gmail.com">tetrahedralpt@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">One can make the Yahgan circumstantial (which IS an applicative- the name comes from the 19th century by an English missionary who wasn't exactly up on all the grammatical jargon needed to write a grammar aimed at specialists) specifically an instrument voice by adding suffix -a:ki to the stem. -a:ki has a variety of different uses, so isn't really by itself an instrument suffix.<div><br></div><div>Jess Tauber</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 9:24 PM David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Thanks, Jess. For this to qualify as instrument voice, it would
have to be clear that the instrument is more like a subject than
an object; otherwise — cf. Matthew Dryer's comment and my response
— it would be more appropriately characterized as an applicative.
Can you confirm this?<br>
</p>
<p>Also, as you describe it below, the semantics seems substantially
broader than that of a pure instrument, though to be honest, there
is also semantic leakage in so-called instrumental voice
constructions in Taiwan and the Philippines, and perhaps also,
though to a lesser extent, in some of the constructions in the New
Guinea languages that I mentioned below.</p>
<p>David</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 22/02/2022 04:05, Jess Tauber wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">In Yahgan, a nearly extinct genetic isolate from
Tierra del Fuego, there is a 'circumstantial' voice prefix I
write as T-, with various forms depending on following
phonological contexts (that is, it is ch(i:) before /y/, /k/,
/g/, /l/, tu: before labial stops or nasal, ts before other
alveolar segments, etc., which can ambivalently mark the
inclusion of an instrument, another non-core animate participant
in the action, locations in space or time, and so forth.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jess Tauber</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 8:42
PM Matthew Dryer <<a href="mailto:dryer@buffalo.edu" target="_blank">dryer@buffalo.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">David,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Why
would you not say that the instrumental construction
in Meyah, Sougb, and Hatam is an applicative, since
the A rather than the instrument controls subject
agreement?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Matthew</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<div style="border-color:rgb(181,196,223) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="color:black">Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
on behalf of David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, February 21, 2022 at 7:40 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>"
<<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Lingtyp] query: instrument voice</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear all,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the Austronesian languages of
Taiwan, Philippines and Madagascar, there is a verbal
affix that is said to mark "instrument voice"; loosely
speaking, it marks the topic or subject of the clause as
bearing the semantic role of instrument.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is anybody familiar with similar
instrument-voice constructions from other parts of the
world?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The reason I ask is that a similar
construction is present also in some languages of the
Bird's Head and Cenderawasih Bay regions of New Guinea,
eg. Biak, Roon, Wamesa and Wooi (Austronesian), and
Hatam, Sougb, Meyah and Moskona (non-Austronesian).
What's curious about this construction is that, unlike
the well-known Austronesian cases, it is the only
morphologically-marked voice in each of the languages in
question; there is no "ordinary" morphological passive
construction. My feeling is that this construction is
quite uncommon cross-linguistically, but I would like to
get a feel for the extent to which this is indeed true.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David</p>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>David Gil</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)</pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution</pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology</pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713</pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
<pre> </pre>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<pre cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
</pre>
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