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<p>Hi Bruno,</p>
<p>Your Marind example is interesting. I have nothing to say about
your language-specific analysis of it as an Applicative, but I
would appreciate further clarification on why you consider it to
be similar to the Bird's Head examples (whatever you choose to
call them).</p>
<p>You say that the instrument NP "shows at least one subject
property": What is this property? Is there a corresponding
construction without the <i>k-</i> prefix, and if so what does it
look like?</p>
<p>It occurs to me that, unlike Marind, the languages I am looking
at (both Austronesian and non-Austronesian) are all SVO, which
means that the pre-verbal position of the instrument NP
constitutes a salient feature of the construction in question.
Whereas for an SOV language like Marind, different criteria would
have to be sought.</p>
<p>David</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22/02/2022 11:45, Bruno Olsson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAFaKcaX1p_mRjvhuoF4BZ-yPSOddKQB0UiGkP3gir_REtZoCBw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Hi David,<br>
<br>
The Marind WITH-Applicative <i>k-</i> is similar to the Roon
data. It allows an instrument to appear as a bare NP:<br>
<br>
<i>basik tamugh anggip k-a-k-w-alawa<br>
</i>pig food snout NTRL.FOC-3sg.SBJ-WITH-3sg.OBJ-is.searching<br>
'The pig is searching for food with its snout.'<br>
<br>
The instrument is obligatorily preverbal in this construction,
which is the focus position in Marind, so the above sentence
would answer 'With what is the pig searching for food?' (so
unlike the construction that Austronesianists once called
Instrument Focus, this is actual instrument focus). In my
grammar I labelled this an Applicative only for
language-internal and expository reasons, and I don't think it
would qualify as an applicative for any cross-linguistic
purposes, because the instrument NP fails to show object
properties, and instead shows at least one subject property (at
the same time, the original subject retains its subject
properties). <br>
<br>
The reason for labelling it as an (upper-case) Applicative is
that the same prefix k- can also introduce a comitative
participant, and in this construction the comitative NP shows
object properties galore. As a Marind grammarian, I prefer to
treat both constructions as subtypes of Applicatives, rather
than positing a Instrument Voice vs. a homophonous Comitative
Applicative, but with my typologist hat on I wouldn't call the
instrument construction an applicative, as no object properties
are acquired. So I think the Marind data is similar to what you
find in the Bird's Head. It's still in New Guinea, but language
contact seems unlikely.<br>
<br>
Best, <br>
Bruno<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 7:33
AM Martin Haspelmath <<a
href="mailto:martin_haspelmath@eva.mpg.de"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">martin_haspelmath@eva.mpg.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> What is an "applicative (voice)"?<br>
<br>
There was a thread on this term on the Lingtyp List in
October 2018
(<a
href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/2018-October/006630.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/2018-October/006630.html</a>),
with some of the same participants.<br>
<br>
It seems to me that such misunderstandings will continue as
long as we think that things like "applicative" or "voice"
exist independently of how these terms are defined. They
probably don't, because languages are far more varied, and
there's much more uncertainty, than we tend to admit.<br>
<br>
But we can propose clear and simple definitions of
"applicative voice" – and following the 2018 discussion, I
wrote this paper on valency and voice constructions where I
defined applicative as a verb-coded voice alternant with A
and P in an alternation whose other alternant has an S
corresponding to the A, and P possibly corresponding to an
oblique (§11.7):<br>
<br>
<a href="https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/005941"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/005941</a><br>
<br>
Once we have clear definitions, we can begin to answer
David's question whether languages with instrumental
applicatives only are rare outside of Austronesian.
(Polinsky 2005/2013 found "instrument applicatives" in 29
languages, but I'm not sure what her definition was: <a
href="https://wals.info/feature/109B" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wals.info/feature/109B</a>)<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<div>Am 22.02.22 um 05:40 schrieb Matthew Dryer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
name="m_4135570100079633503__GoBack"
moz-do-not-send="true"></a>Mark says<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">However,
every text study of either passives or
applicatives, or non-core philippine-type voice
choice, shows that there is a degree of pragmatic
prominence associated with the use of these
valency-rearranging operations. We might re-phrase
the passive and applicative characterisations as</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"> </span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">passive
promotes pragmatically-prominent object to subject
(and demotes initial less-prominent subject to
non-core)</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">applicative
promotes pragmatically-prominent (oblique?) to
object (might demote initial (less-prominent?)
object to non-core)</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, there are applicatives
which are "obligatory" for a given semantic type. In
one lg I work on, Ktunaxa, all applicatives are
obligatory in the sense that the only way to express a
benefactive, instrumental, or comitative is to use the
relevant applicative. In Walman, the only way to
express a benefactive is to use the applicative. Since
they are obligatory, there really isn't any pragmatic
prominence associated with these applicatives.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Matthew</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Mark Donohue <a
href="mailto:mhdonohue@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><mhdonohue@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, February 21, 2022 at 10:24
PM<br>
<b>To: </b>David Gil <a
href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><gil@shh.mpg.de></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Matthew Dryer <a
href="mailto:dryer@buffalo.edu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><dryer@buffalo.edu></a>,
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">"lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"</a>
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] query: instrument
voice</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi David,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The issue, as I see it, is what
we mean by 'promote'.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We can agree that</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">passive promotes object to
subject (and demotes initial subject to non-core)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">applicative promotes (oblique?)
to object (might demote initial object to
non-core)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(and the philippine voice is
something like " … promotes (anything) to subject
(and doesn't demote initial subject to non-core)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, every text study of
either passives or applicatives, or non-core
philippine-type voice choice, shows that there is
a degree of pragmatic prominence associated with
the use of these valency-rearranging operations.
We might re-phrase the passive and applicative
characterisations as</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">passive promotes
pragmatically-prominent object to subject (and
demotes initial less-prominent subject to
non-core)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">applicative promotes
pragmatically-prominent (oblique?) to object
(might demote initial (less-prominent?) object
to non-core)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We typically describe
applicatives as involving just the grammatical
function change. Thus, we have examples like
this cited for Indonesian (from Shiohara 2012):</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li style="color:black"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">(2)a
<i>Pelayan mengambil segelas air</i>.</span></li>
</ol>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">waiter<span> </span></span><span
style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">AV</span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">.take
a.glass.of water</span><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">‘The
waiter took a glass of water.’</span><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<ol type="1" start="2">
<li style="color:black"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">(2)b
<i>Pelayan mengambil-kan tamu segelas
air</i>.<br>
waiter<span> </span></span><span
style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">AV</span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">.take-</span><span
style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">APPL<span> </span></span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">guest
a.glass.of water<br>
‘The waiter brought the guest a glass
of water.’ (Sneddon 1996: 80)</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As Susanna Cummings showed,
however, (2)b examples are not really attested
in naturalistic discourse; rather, we have
examples like the following:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(2)c Tamu di-ambil-kan
segelas air (oleh pelayan).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> guest
NONACTIVE-take-APPL a.glass.of water by waiter</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> 'The waiter brought
the guest a glass of water.'</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(See also Donohue 2001 for
similar data from Tukang Besi.)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, this shows that (in some
languages) the increased prominence of the
argument that was sufficient to merit coding with
an applicative construction is also sufficient to
merit a non-active voice choice, with all that
entails. A Philippine-type voice system by
stealth, as it were.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The Tzutujil example has an
applicative suffix; and it also has a verb with
3SG absolutive agreement (Ø), not 1SG (the in- in
the first example I posted). It also has the
requirement that there must be overt coding of the
increased prominent of the instrument; like
Indonesian, it does that by utilising existing
high-prominence coding strategies; unlike
Indonesian, it does that not by using a voice
change, but by using a pragmatically-marked word
order choice.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Mark</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1pt;margin-left:42.5pt"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;color:black">Donohue, Mark.
2001. Coding choices in argument structure:
Austronesian applicatives in texts.<span> </span><i>Studies
in Language</i>25 (2): 217-254.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 at 13:53,
David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p>Mark,</p>
<p>Thanks for the Tzutujil example, which is
indeed quite similar to the New Guinea
constructions I have been looking at.</p>
<p>However, I remain unconvinced with regard to
its characterization as an applicative, though
to a certain degree this is a mere
terminological question. Prototypically,
applicatives promote to direct objects while
passive voices (such as instrumental) promote to
subjects — so, for any given construction, the
question is whether the relevant argument, here
the instrumental one, is more direct-object-like
or more subject-like.</p>
<p>This begins to remind me of the seemingly
endless ongoing debates over whether Philippine
voice constructions are "really" passives or
perhaps something else, the question generally
boiling down to whether the relevant argument is
more like a subject or more like a topic.
Personally, I don't find these debates very
productive, and I'm not sure how useful an
analogous debate between applicative and
instrumental-voice labels would prove to be in
this case. </p>
<p>What's important is to have a clear description
of the facts, and how the constructions in
question differ from prototypical applicatives
and from prototypical instrumental voice
constructions — with the proviso that there are
perhaps not sufficiently many of the latter to
construct a clear notion of what is
prototypical.</p>
<p>David</p>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 22/02/2022 04:26, Mark
Donohue wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would agree with
Matthew that these are best described as
applicatives, but ones in which the
'pragmatic advancement' function monitored
by an applicative is, in addition to the
grammatical function coding changes, also
required to be monitored by the use of a
pragmatically marked word order. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Very similar facts are
found in Tzutujil, in which the
applicative, which indicates an
instrumental role (despite having a
morpheme cognate with the benefactive
applicative in other Mayan languages) also
requires the appearance of the instrument
object in a preverbal role, which is a
pragmatically marked position in a
verb-initial language.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Data from Dayley
(1985).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:55.3pt;line-height:15pt;break-after:avoid"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times;color:blue">Xinruuch’eyi jaa7
tza7n chee7</span></p>
<p
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:55.3pt;line-height:15pt;break-after:avoid"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times;color:blue">he:hit:me he
with stick</span></p>
<p
style="margin-right:28.35pt;margin-bottom:2pt;margin-left:59.55pt;text-align:justify;line-height:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times">‘He
hit me with a stick.’</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:55.3pt;line-height:15pt;break-after:avoid"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times;color:blue">Chee7
x(r)uuch’eyb’ei jaa7 inin</span></p>
<p
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:55.3pt;line-height:15pt;break-after:avoid"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times;color:blue">stick
he:hit-with:it he 1SG</span></p>
<p
style="margin-right:28.35pt;margin-bottom:2pt;margin-left:59.55pt;text-align:justify;line-height:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times">‘He
hit me with a stick.’</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Mark</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 at
13:15, David Gil <<a
href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p>Matthew,</p>
<p>The reason I don't call it an
applicative is that (in most cases) the
instrumental argument must occur before
the verb in a topic-like position.</p>
<p>This can be illustrated with the Roon
instrumental prefix <i>u-</i> in the
following examples:</p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse"
cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">(1)</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:0.75in;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="72" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">*
Eros-i</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">t-u-karuk</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">ai-i-ya</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:0.75in;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="72" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">Eros-pers</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">3sg:anim-instr-chop</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">tree-3sg:anim-def<span
style="color:black"> </span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">
'Eros chopped the tree'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse"
cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">(2)</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:62.3pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="83" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">I-seref</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">kaman</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:22.65pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">fa</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:47.85pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="64" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">Eros-i</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">t-u-karuk</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">ai-i-ya</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:62.3pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="83" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">1sg-look.for</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">axe</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:22.65pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">for</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:47.85pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="64" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">Eros-pers</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">3sg:anim-instr-chop</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">tree-3sg:anim-def</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;color:white">
</span><span style="font-size:10pt">'I'm
looking for an axe for Eros to chop
the tree with'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse"
cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">(3)</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:67.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="90" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">I-seref</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">kaman</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:47.55pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="63" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">Eros-i</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">t-u-karuk<span
style="color:black"> </span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:135pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="180" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">ai-i-ya-ri-ya</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:67.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="90" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">1sg-look.for</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">axe</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:47.55pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="63" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">Eros-pers</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">3sg:anim-instr-chop</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:135pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="180" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">tree-3sg:anim-def-3sg:inan-def</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">
'I'm looking for the axe that Eros
chopped the tree with'</span></p>
<p>Sentence (1) is ungrammatical, and
cannot be salvaged by adding a
postverbal NP or PP referring to the
axe; in this respect it differs from
typical applicative constructions. In
contrast, sentences (2) and (3) are
fine, because the instrumental prefix <i>u-</i>
is licensed by the preceding NP <i>kaman</i>
referring to the axe. True, this is not
exactly the same as how things work in
Philippine languages, but it is more
like Philippine instrumental voice than
anything else I can think of (including
applicatives). In particular, in (3),
the instrumental prefix is required in
order to license relativization (in
contrast, relativization of other
oblique arguments is zero-marked). To
use Paul Schachter's terminology, in
both (2) and (3), "subjecthood
properties" seem to be split between the
agent (which, as you correctly point
out, controls agreement) and the
instrument.<br>
<br>
Very similar patterns obtain in the
other Austronesian and non-Austronesian
languages that I mentioned, which —
given the apparent rarity of this
pattern elsewhere — is strongly
suggestive of language contact.</p>
<p>David</p>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 22/02/2022
03:41, Matthew Dryer wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">David,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Why would you not
say that the instrumental
construction in Meyah, Sougb, and
Hatam is an applicative, since the A
rather than the instrument controls
subject agreement?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Matthew</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt
0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="color:black">Lingtyp <a
href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a> on behalf of David
Gil <a
href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<gil@shh.mpg.de></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, February
21, 2022 at 7:40 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">"lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"</a>
<a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Lingtyp]
query: instrument voice</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear all,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the
Austronesian languages of Taiwan,
Philippines and Madagascar, there is
a verbal affix that is said to mark
"instrument voice"; loosely
speaking, it marks the topic or
subject of the clause as bearing the
semantic role of instrument.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is anybody
familiar with similar
instrument-voice constructions from
other parts of the world?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The reason I ask
is that a similar construction is
present also in some languages of
the Bird's Head and Cenderawasih Bay
regions of New Guinea, eg. Biak,
Roon, Wamesa and Wooi
(Austronesian), and Hatam, Sougb,
Meyah and Moskona
(non-Austronesian). What's curious
about this construction is that,
unlike the well-known Austronesian
cases, it is the only
morphologically-marked voice in each
of the languages in question; there
is no "ordinary" morphological
passive construction. My feeling is
that this construction is quite
uncommon cross-linguistically, but I
would like to get a feel for the
extent to which this is indeed true.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David</p>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>David Gil</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)</pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution</pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology</pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713</pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
<pre> </pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>David Gil</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)</pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution</pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology</pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713</pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
<pre> </pre>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>David Gil</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)</pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution</pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology</pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713</pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
<pre> </pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
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<a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6
D-04103 Leipzig
<a href="https://www.eva.mpg.de/linguistic-and-cultural-evolution/staff/martin-haspelmath/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.eva.mpg.de/linguistic-and-cultural-evolution/staff/martin-haspelmath/</a></pre>
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<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
</pre>
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