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Yes, preverbal position in SVO languages is very salient and is
often interpreted as a "subject" or "topic" property. But as David
notes here: There is no analogous criterion for SOV languages.<br>
<br>
For this reason, it seems best to define all voice types primarily
with respect to argument coding, i.e. flagging and indexing, as has
mostly been done in the typological tradition since Comrie and
Dixon. (The generative tradition has mostly ignored this insight,
and has relied on "height" in a tree, even though this is not an
overt criterion.)<br>
<br>
But of course, there are a lot more phenomena out there, so we
desperately need additional terminology to capture whatever
similarities there are...<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 22.02.22 um 14:15 schrieb David Gil:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:95a3b202-2509-4a8f-11d2-ab1c1ac8cd9e@shh.mpg.de">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Hi Bruno,</p>
<p>Your Marind example is interesting. I have nothing to say
about your language-specific analysis of it as an Applicative,
but I would appreciate further clarification on why you consider
it to be similar to the Bird's Head examples (whatever you
choose to call them).</p>
<p>You say that the instrument NP "shows at least one subject
property": What is this property? Is there a corresponding
construction without the <i>k-</i> prefix, and if so what does
it look like?</p>
<p>It occurs to me that, unlike Marind, the languages I am looking
at (both Austronesian and non-Austronesian) are all SVO, which
means that the pre-verbal position of the instrument NP
constitutes a salient feature of the construction in question.
Whereas for an SOV language like Marind, different criteria
would have to be sought.</p>
<p>David</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22/02/2022 11:45, Bruno Olsson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAFaKcaX1p_mRjvhuoF4BZ-yPSOddKQB0UiGkP3gir_REtZoCBw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Hi David,<br>
<br>
The Marind WITH-Applicative <i>k-</i> is similar to the Roon
data. It allows an instrument to appear as a bare NP:<br>
<br>
<i>basik tamugh anggip k-a-k-w-alawa<br>
</i>pig food snout NTRL.FOC-3sg.SBJ-WITH-3sg.OBJ-is.searching<br>
'The pig is searching for food with its snout.'<br>
<br>
The instrument is obligatorily preverbal in this construction,
which is the focus position in Marind, so the above sentence
would answer 'With what is the pig searching for food?' (so
unlike the construction that Austronesianists once called
Instrument Focus, this is actual instrument focus). In my
grammar I labelled this an Applicative only for
language-internal and expository reasons, and I don't think it
would qualify as an applicative for any cross-linguistic
purposes, because the instrument NP fails to show object
properties, and instead shows at least one subject property
(at the same time, the original subject retains its subject
properties). <br>
<br>
The reason for labelling it as an (upper-case) Applicative is
that the same prefix k- can also introduce a comitative
participant, and in this construction the comitative NP shows
object properties galore. As a Marind grammarian, I prefer to
treat both constructions as subtypes of Applicatives, rather
than positing a Instrument Voice vs. a homophonous Comitative
Applicative, but with my typologist hat on I wouldn't call the
instrument construction an applicative, as no object
properties are acquired. So I think the Marind data is similar
to what you find in the Bird's Head. It's still in New Guinea,
but language contact seems unlikely.<br>
<br>
Best, <br>
Bruno<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 7:33
AM Martin Haspelmath <<a
href="mailto:martin_haspelmath@eva.mpg.de"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">martin_haspelmath@eva.mpg.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> What is an "applicative (voice)"?<br>
<br>
There was a thread on this term on the Lingtyp List in
October 2018 (<a
href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/2018-October/006630.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/2018-October/006630.html</a>),
with some of the same participants.<br>
<br>
It seems to me that such misunderstandings will continue
as long as we think that things like "applicative" or
"voice" exist independently of how these terms are
defined. They probably don't, because languages are far
more varied, and there's much more uncertainty, than we
tend to admit.<br>
<br>
But we can propose clear and simple definitions of
"applicative voice" – and following the 2018 discussion, I
wrote this paper on valency and voice constructions where
I defined applicative as a verb-coded voice alternant with
A and P in an alternation whose other alternant has an S
corresponding to the A, and P possibly corresponding to an
oblique (§11.7):<br>
<br>
<a href="https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/005941"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/005941</a><br>
<br>
Once we have clear definitions, we can begin to answer
David's question whether languages with instrumental
applicatives only are rare outside of Austronesian.
(Polinsky 2005/2013 found "instrument applicatives" in 29
languages, but I'm not sure what her definition was: <a
href="https://wals.info/feature/109B" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wals.info/feature/109B</a>)<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<div>Am 22.02.22 um 05:40 schrieb Matthew Dryer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
name="m_4135570100079633503__GoBack"
moz-do-not-send="true"></a>Mark says<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">However,
every text study of either passives or
applicatives, or non-core philippine-type voice
choice, shows that there is a degree of
pragmatic prominence associated with the use of
these valency-rearranging operations. We might
re-phrase the passive and applicative
characterisations as</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"> </span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">passive
promotes pragmatically-prominent object to
subject (and demotes initial less-prominent
subject to non-core)</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">applicative
promotes pragmatically-prominent (oblique?) to
object (might demote initial (less-prominent?)
object to non-core)</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, there are applicatives
which are "obligatory" for a given semantic type. In
one lg I work on, Ktunaxa, all applicatives are
obligatory in the sense that the only way to express
a benefactive, instrumental, or comitative is to use
the relevant applicative. In Walman, the only way to
express a benefactive is to use the applicative.
Since they are obligatory, there really isn't any
pragmatic prominence associated with these
applicatives.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Matthew</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Mark Donohue
<a href="mailto:mhdonohue@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><mhdonohue@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, February 21, 2022 at 10:24
PM<br>
<b>To: </b>David Gil <a
href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><gil@shh.mpg.de></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Matthew Dryer <a
href="mailto:dryer@buffalo.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><dryer@buffalo.edu></a>,
<a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">"lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"</a>
<a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] query: instrument
voice</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi David,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The issue, as I see it, is
what we mean by 'promote'.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We can agree that</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">passive promotes object to
subject (and demotes initial subject to
non-core)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">applicative promotes
(oblique?) to object (might demote initial
object to non-core)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(and the philippine voice is
something like " … promotes (anything) to
subject (and doesn't demote initial subject to
non-core)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, every text study of
either passives or applicatives, or non-core
philippine-type voice choice, shows that there
is a degree of pragmatic prominence associated
with the use of these valency-rearranging
operations. We might re-phrase the passive and
applicative characterisations as</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">passive promotes
pragmatically-prominent object to subject (and
demotes initial less-prominent subject to
non-core)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">applicative promotes
pragmatically-prominent (oblique?) to object
(might demote initial (less-prominent?) object
to non-core)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We typically describe
applicatives as involving just the grammatical
function change. Thus, we have examples like
this cited for Indonesian (from Shiohara
2012):</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li style="color:black"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">(2)a
<i>Pelayan mengambil segelas air</i>.</span></li>
</ol>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">waiter<span> </span></span><span
style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">AV</span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">.take
a.glass.of water</span><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">‘The
waiter took a glass of water.’</span><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<ol type="1" start="2">
<li style="color:black"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">(2)b
<i>Pelayan mengambil-kan tamu
segelas air</i>.<br>
waiter<span> </span></span><span
style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">AV</span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">.take-</span><span
style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">APPL<span> </span></span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">guest
a.glass.of water<br>
‘The waiter brought the guest a
glass of water.’ (Sneddon 1996: 80)</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As Susanna Cummings showed,
however, (2)b examples are not really attested
in naturalistic discourse; rather, we have
examples like the following:</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(2)c Tamu di-ambil-kan
segelas air (oleh pelayan).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> guest
NONACTIVE-take-APPL a.glass.of water by waiter</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> 'The waiter
brought the guest a glass of water.'</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(See also Donohue 2001 for
similar data from Tukang Besi.)</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, this shows that (in some
languages) the increased prominence of the
argument that was sufficient to merit coding
with an applicative construction is also
sufficient to merit a non-active voice choice,
with all that entails. A Philippine-type voice
system by stealth, as it were.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The Tzutujil example has an
applicative suffix; and it also has a verb with
3SG absolutive agreement (Ø), not 1SG (the in-
in the first example I posted). It also has the
requirement that there must be overt coding of
the increased prominent of the instrument; like
Indonesian, it does that by utilising existing
high-prominence coding strategies; unlike
Indonesian, it does that not by using a voice
change, but by using a pragmatically-marked word
order choice.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Mark</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1pt;margin-left:42.5pt"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;color:black">Donohue, Mark.
2001. Coding choices in argument structure:
Austronesian applicatives in texts.<span> </span><i>Studies
in Language</i>25 (2): 217-254.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 at 13:53,
David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p>Mark,</p>
<p>Thanks for the Tzutujil example, which is
indeed quite similar to the New Guinea
constructions I have been looking at.</p>
<p>However, I remain unconvinced with regard to
its characterization as an applicative, though
to a certain degree this is a mere
terminological question. Prototypically,
applicatives promote to direct objects while
passive voices (such as instrumental) promote
to subjects — so, for any given construction,
the question is whether the relevant argument,
here the instrumental one, is more
direct-object-like or more subject-like.</p>
<p>This begins to remind me of the seemingly
endless ongoing debates over whether
Philippine voice constructions are "really"
passives or perhaps something else, the
question generally boiling down to whether the
relevant argument is more like a subject or
more like a topic. Personally, I don't find
these debates very productive, and I'm not
sure how useful an analogous debate between
applicative and instrumental-voice labels
would prove to be in this case. </p>
<p>What's important is to have a clear
description of the facts, and how the
constructions in question differ from
prototypical applicatives and from
prototypical instrumental voice constructions
— with the proviso that there are perhaps not
sufficiently many of the latter to construct a
clear notion of what is prototypical.</p>
<p>David</p>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 22/02/2022 04:26, Mark
Donohue wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would agree with
Matthew that these are best described as
applicatives, but ones in which the
'pragmatic advancement' function monitored
by an applicative is, in addition to the
grammatical function coding changes, also
required to be monitored by the use of a
pragmatically marked word order. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Very similar facts
are found in Tzutujil, in which the
applicative, which indicates an
instrumental role (despite having a
morpheme cognate with the benefactive
applicative in other Mayan languages)
also requires the appearance of the
instrument object in a preverbal role,
which is a pragmatically marked position
in a verb-initial language.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Data from Dayley
(1985).</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:55.3pt;line-height:15pt;break-after:avoid"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times;color:blue">Xinruuch’eyi jaa7
tza7n chee7</span></p>
<p
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:55.3pt;line-height:15pt;break-after:avoid"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times;color:blue">he:hit:me he
with stick</span></p>
<p
style="margin-right:28.35pt;margin-bottom:2pt;margin-left:59.55pt;text-align:justify;line-height:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times">‘He hit me with a stick.’</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:55.3pt;line-height:15pt;break-after:avoid"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times;color:blue">Chee7
x(r)uuch’eyb’ei jaa7 inin</span></p>
<p
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:55.3pt;line-height:15pt;break-after:avoid"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times;color:blue">stick
he:hit-with:it he 1SG</span></p>
<p
style="margin-right:28.35pt;margin-bottom:2pt;margin-left:59.55pt;text-align:justify;line-height:12pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times">‘He hit me with a stick.’</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Mark</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, 22 Feb 2022
at 13:15, David Gil <<a
href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p>Matthew,</p>
<p>The reason I don't call it an
applicative is that (in most cases)
the instrumental argument must occur
before the verb in a topic-like
position.</p>
<p>This can be illustrated with the Roon
instrumental prefix <i>u-</i> in the
following examples:</p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse"
cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">(1)</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:0.75in;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="72" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">*
Eros-i</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">t-u-karuk</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">ai-i-ya</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td
style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:0.75in;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="72" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">Eros-pers</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">3sg:anim-instr-chop</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">tree-3sg:anim-def<span
style="color:black"> </span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">
'Eros chopped the tree'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse"
cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">(2)</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:62.3pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="83" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">I-seref</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">kaman</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:22.65pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">fa</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:47.85pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="64" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">Eros-i</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">t-u-karuk</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">ai-i-ya</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td
style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:62.3pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="83" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">1sg-look.for</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">axe</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:22.65pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">for</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:47.85pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="64" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">Eros-pers</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">3sg:anim-instr-chop</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">tree-3sg:anim-def</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;color:white">
</span><span style="font-size:10pt">'I'm
looking for an axe for Eros to chop
the tree with'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse"
cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td
style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">(3)</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:67.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="90" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">I-seref</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">kaman</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:47.55pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="63" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">Eros-i</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">t-u-karuk<span
style="color:black"> </span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:135pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="180" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">ai-i-ya-ri-ya</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td
style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:67.25pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="90" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">1sg-look.for</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">axe</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:47.55pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="63" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">Eros-pers</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">3sg:anim-instr-chop</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:135pt;padding:0in
5.4pt" width="180" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">tree-3sg:anim-def-3sg:inan-def</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt">
'I'm looking for the axe that Eros
chopped the tree with'</span></p>
<p>Sentence (1) is ungrammatical, and
cannot be salvaged by adding a
postverbal NP or PP referring to the
axe; in this respect it differs from
typical applicative constructions. In
contrast, sentences (2) and (3) are
fine, because the instrumental prefix
<i>u-</i> is licensed by the preceding
NP <i>kaman</i> referring to the
axe. True, this is not exactly the
same as how things work in Philippine
languages, but it is more like
Philippine instrumental voice than
anything else I can think of
(including applicatives). In
particular, in (3), the instrumental
prefix is required in order to license
relativization (in contrast,
relativization of other oblique
arguments is zero-marked). To use
Paul Schachter's terminology, in both
(2) and (3), "subjecthood properties"
seem to be split between the agent
(which, as you correctly point out,
controls agreement) and the
instrument.<br>
<br>
Very similar patterns obtain in the
other Austronesian and
non-Austronesian languages that I
mentioned, which — given the apparent
rarity of this pattern elsewhere — is
strongly suggestive of language
contact.</p>
<p>David</p>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 22/02/2022
03:41, Matthew Dryer wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">David,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Why would you
not say that the instrumental
construction in Meyah, Sougb, and
Hatam is an applicative, since the
A rather than the instrument
controls subject agreement?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Matthew</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt
0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="color:black">Lingtyp <a
href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a> on behalf of David
Gil <a
href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">
<gil@shh.mpg.de></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, February
21, 2022 at 7:40 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">"lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"</a>
<a
href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Lingtyp]
query: instrument voice</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear all,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the
Austronesian languages of Taiwan,
Philippines and Madagascar, there
is a verbal affix that is said to
mark "instrument voice"; loosely
speaking, it marks the topic or
subject of the clause as bearing
the semantic role of instrument.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is anybody
familiar with similar
instrument-voice constructions
from other parts of the world?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The reason I
ask is that a similar construction
is present also in some languages
of the Bird's Head and
Cenderawasih Bay regions of New
Guinea, eg. Biak, Roon, Wamesa and
Wooi (Austronesian), and Hatam,
Sougb, Meyah and Moskona
(non-Austronesian). What's
curious about this construction is
that, unlike the well-known
Austronesian cases, it is the only
morphologically-marked voice in
each of the languages in question;
there is no "ordinary"
morphological passive
construction. My feeling is that
this construction is quite
uncommon cross-linguistically, but
I would like to get a feel for the
extent to which this is indeed
true.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David</p>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>David Gil</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)</pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution</pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology</pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713</pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
<pre> </pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>David Gil</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)</pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution</pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology</pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713</pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
<pre> </pre>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>David Gil</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)</pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution</pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology</pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713</pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091</pre>
<pre> </pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
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<a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6
D-04103 Leipzig
<a href="https://www.eva.mpg.de/linguistic-and-cultural-evolution/staff/martin-haspelmath/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.eva.mpg.de/linguistic-and-cultural-evolution/staff/martin-haspelmath/</a></pre>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
</pre>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Lingtyp mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6
D-04103 Leipzig
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.eva.mpg.de/linguistic-and-cultural-evolution/staff/martin-haspelmath/">https://www.eva.mpg.de/linguistic-and-cultural-evolution/staff/martin-haspelmath/</a></pre>
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