<div dir="ltr">Hi David,<br><br>The Marind WITH-Applicative <i>k-</i> is similar to the Roon data. It allows an instrument to appear as a bare NP:<br><br><i>basik tamugh anggip k-a-k-w-alawa<br></i>pig food snout NTRL.FOC-3sg.SBJ-WITH-3sg.OBJ-is.searching<br>'The pig is searching for food with its snout.'<br><br>The instrument is obligatorily preverbal in this construction, which is the focus position in Marind, so the above sentence would answer 'With what is the pig searching for food?' (so unlike the construction that Austronesianists once called Instrument Focus, this is actual instrument focus). In my grammar I labelled this an Applicative only for language-internal and expository reasons, and I don't think it would qualify as an applicative for any cross-linguistic purposes, because the instrument NP fails to show object properties, and instead shows at least one subject property (at the same time, the original subject retains its subject properties). <br><br>The reason for labelling it as an (upper-case) Applicative is that the same prefix k- can also introduce a comitative participant, and in this construction the comitative NP shows object properties galore. As a Marind grammarian, I prefer to treat both constructions as subtypes of Applicatives, rather than positing a Instrument Voice vs. a homophonous Comitative Applicative, but with my typologist hat on I wouldn't call the instrument construction an applicative, as no object properties are acquired. So I think the Marind data is similar to what you find in the Bird's Head. It's still in New Guinea, but language contact seems unlikely.<br><br>Best, <br>Bruno<br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 7:33 AM Martin Haspelmath <<a href="mailto:martin_haspelmath@eva.mpg.de">martin_haspelmath@eva.mpg.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
What is an "applicative (voice)"?<br>
<br>
There was a thread on this term on the Lingtyp List in October 2018
(<a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/2018-October/006630.html" target="_blank">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/2018-October/006630.html</a>),
with some of the same participants.<br>
<br>
It seems to me that such misunderstandings will continue as long as
we think that things like "applicative" or "voice" exist
independently of how these terms are defined. They probably don't,
because languages are far more varied, and there's much more
uncertainty, than we tend to admit.<br>
<br>
But we can propose clear and simple definitions of "applicative
voice" – and following the 2018 discussion, I wrote this paper on
valency and voice constructions where I defined applicative as a
verb-coded voice alternant with A and P in an alternation whose
other alternant has an S corresponding to the A, and P possibly
corresponding to an oblique (§11.7):<br>
<br>
<a href="https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/005941" target="_blank">https://ling.auf.net/lingbuzz/005941</a><br>
<br>
Once we have clear definitions, we can begin to answer David's
question whether languages with instrumental applicatives only are
rare outside of Austronesian. (Polinsky 2005/2013 found "instrument
applicatives" in 29 languages, but I'm not sure what her definition
was: <a href="https://wals.info/feature/109B" target="_blank">https://wals.info/feature/109B</a>)<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<div>Am 22.02.22 um 05:40 schrieb Matthew
Dryer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_4135570100079633503__GoBack"></a>Mark
says<span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">However, every text
study of either passives or applicatives, or non-core
philippine-type voice choice, shows that there is a degree
of pragmatic prominence associated with the use of these
valency-rearranging operations. We might re-phrase the
passive and applicative characterisations as<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">passive promotes
pragmatically-prominent object to subject (and demotes
initial less-prominent subject to non-core)<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black">applicative promotes
pragmatically-prominent (oblique?) to object (might demote
initial (less-prominent?) object to non-core)<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, there are applicatives which are
"obligatory" for a given semantic type. In one lg I work on,
Ktunaxa, all applicatives are obligatory in the sense that the
only way to express a benefactive, instrumental, or comitative
is to use the relevant applicative. In Walman, the only way to
express a benefactive is to use the applicative. Since they
are obligatory, there really isn't any pragmatic prominence
associated with these applicatives.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Matthew<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Mark Donohue
<a href="mailto:mhdonohue@gmail.com" target="_blank"><mhdonohue@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, February 21, 2022 at 10:24 PM<br>
<b>To: </b>David Gil <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank"><gil@shh.mpg.de></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Matthew Dryer <a href="mailto:dryer@buffalo.edu" target="_blank"><dryer@buffalo.edu></a>,
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">"lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"</a>
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] query: instrument voice<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi David,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The issue, as I see it, is what we mean
by 'promote'.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We can agree that<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">passive promotes object to subject (and
demotes initial subject to non-core)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">applicative promotes (oblique?) to
object (might demote initial object to non-core)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(and the philippine voice is something
like " … promotes (anything) to subject (and doesn't
demote initial subject to non-core)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, every text study of either
passives or applicatives, or non-core philippine-type
voice choice, shows that there is a degree of pragmatic
prominence associated with the use of these
valency-rearranging operations. We might re-phrase the
passive and applicative characterisations as<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">passive promotes
pragmatically-prominent object to subject (and demotes
initial less-prominent subject to non-core)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">applicative promotes
pragmatically-prominent (oblique?) to object (might
demote initial (less-prominent?) object to non-core)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We typically describe applicatives as
involving just the grammatical function change. Thus, we
have examples like this cited for Indonesian (from
Shiohara 2012):<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<ol type="1" start="1">
<li style="color:black"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">(2)a <i>Pelayan
mengambil segelas air</i>.</span><u></u><u></u></li>
</ol>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">waiter<span> </span></span><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">AV</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">.take
a.glass.of water</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">‘The
waiter took a glass of water.’</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<ol type="1" start="2">
<li style="color:black"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">(2)b <i>Pelayan
mengambil-kan tamu segelas air</i>.<br>
waiter<span> </span></span><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">AV</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">.take-</span><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">APPL<span> </span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Times;color:rgb(35,31,32)">guest
a.glass.of water<br>
‘The waiter brought the guest a glass of
water.’ (Sneddon 1996: 80)</span><u></u><u></u></li>
</ol>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As Susanna Cummings showed, however,
(2)b examples are not really attested in naturalistic
discourse; rather, we have examples like the following:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(2)c Tamu di-ambil-kan segelas air
(oleh pelayan).<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> guest NONACTIVE-take-APPL
a.glass.of water by waiter<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> 'The waiter brought the
guest a glass of water.'<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(See also Donohue 2001 for similar data
from Tukang Besi.)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, this shows that (in some languages)
the increased prominence of the argument that was
sufficient to merit coding with an applicative
construction is also sufficient to merit a non-active
voice choice, with all that entails. A Philippine-type
voice system by stealth, as it were.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The Tzutujil example has an applicative
suffix; and it also has a verb with 3SG absolutive
agreement (Ø), not 1SG (the in- in the first example I
posted). It also has the requirement that there must be
overt coding of the increased prominent of the instrument;
like Indonesian, it does that by utilising existing
high-prominence coding strategies; unlike Indonesian, it
does that not by using a voice change, but by using a
pragmatically-marked word order choice.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Mark<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1pt;margin-left:42.5pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Times;color:black">Donohue,
Mark. 2001. Coding choices in argument structure:
Austronesian applicatives in texts.<span> </span><i>Studies
in Language</i>25 (2): 217-254.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 at 13:53, David Gil
<<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p>Mark,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Thanks for the Tzutujil example, which is indeed quite
similar to the New Guinea constructions I have been
looking at.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>However, I remain unconvinced with regard to its
characterization as an applicative, though to a certain
degree this is a mere terminological question.
Prototypically, applicatives promote to direct objects
while passive voices (such as instrumental) promote to
subjects — so, for any given construction, the question
is whether the relevant argument, here the instrumental
one, is more direct-object-like or more subject-like.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>This begins to remind me of the seemingly endless
ongoing debates over whether Philippine voice
constructions are "really" passives or perhaps something
else, the question generally boiling down to whether the
relevant argument is more like a subject or more like a
topic. Personally, I don't find these debates very
productive, and I'm not sure how useful an analogous
debate between applicative and instrumental-voice labels
would prove to be in this case.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>What's important is to have a clear description of the
facts, and how the constructions in question differ from
prototypical applicatives and from prototypical
instrumental voice constructions — with the proviso that
there are perhaps not sufficiently many of the latter to
construct a clear notion of what is prototypical.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>David<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 22/02/2022 04:26, Mark Donohue
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would agree with Matthew that
these are best described as applicatives, but ones
in which the 'pragmatic advancement' function
monitored by an applicative is, in addition to the
grammatical function coding changes, also required
to be monitored by the use of a pragmatically marked
word order. <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Very similar facts are found in
Tzutujil, in which the applicative, which
indicates an instrumental role (despite having a
morpheme cognate with the benefactive applicative
in other Mayan languages) also requires the
appearance of the instrument object in a preverbal
role, which is a pragmatically marked position in
a verb-initial language.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Data from Dayley (1985).<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:55.3pt;line-height:15pt;break-after:avoid"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times;color:blue">Xinruuch’eyi jaa7
tza7n chee7<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:55.3pt;line-height:15pt;break-after:avoid"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times;color:blue">he:hit:me he
with stick<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:28.35pt;margin-bottom:2pt;margin-left:59.55pt;text-align:justify;line-height:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times">‘He
hit me with a stick.’<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:55.3pt;line-height:15pt;break-after:avoid"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times;color:blue">Chee7
x(r)uuch’eyb’ei jaa7 inin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:55.3pt;line-height:15pt;break-after:avoid"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times;color:blue">stick
he:hit-with:it he 1SG<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:28.35pt;margin-bottom:2pt;margin-left:59.55pt;text-align:justify;line-height:12pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Times">‘He
hit me with a stick.’<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-Mark<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 at 13:15,
David Gil <<a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p>Matthew,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>The reason I don't call it an applicative is
that (in most cases) the instrumental argument
must occur before the verb in a topic-like
position.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>This can be illustrated with the Roon
instrumental prefix <i>u-</i> in the following
examples:<u></u><u></u></p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">(1)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:0.75in;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="72" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">* Eros-i</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">t-u-karuk</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">ai-i-ya</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:0.75in;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="72" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Eros-pers</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">3sg:anim-instr-chop</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">tree-3sg:anim-def<span style="color:black">
</span></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">
'Eros chopped the tree'</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">(2)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:62.3pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="83" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">I-seref</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">kaman</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:22.65pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">fa</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:47.85pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="64" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Eros-i</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">t-u-karuk</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">ai-i-ya</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:62.3pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="83" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">1sg-look.for</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">axe</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:22.65pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">for</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:47.85pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="64" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Eros-pers</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">3sg:anim-instr-chop</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">tree-3sg:anim-def</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:white">
</span><span style="font-size:10pt">'I'm
looking for an axe for Eros to chop the tree
with'</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<table style="border-collapse:collapse" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">(3)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:67.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="90" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">I-seref</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">kaman</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:47.55pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="63" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Eros-i</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">t-u-karuk<span style="color:black">
</span></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:135pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="180" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">ai-i-ya-ri-ya</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:67.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="90" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">1sg-look.for</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">axe</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:47.55pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="63" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Eros-pers</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">3sg:anim-instr-chop</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
<td style="width:135pt;padding:0in 5.4pt" width="180" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">tree-3sg:anim-def-3sg:inan-def</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">
'I'm looking for the axe that Eros chopped the
tree with'</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Sentence (1) is ungrammatical, and cannot be
salvaged by adding a postverbal NP or PP
referring to the axe; in this respect it differs
from typical applicative constructions. In
contrast, sentences (2) and (3) are fine,
because the instrumental prefix
<i>u-</i> is licensed by the preceding NP <i>kaman</i>
referring to the axe. True, this is not exactly
the same as how things work in Philippine
languages, but it is more like Philippine
instrumental voice than anything else I can
think of (including applicatives). In
particular, in (3), the instrumental prefix is
required in order to license relativization (in
contrast, relativization of other oblique
arguments is zero-marked). To use Paul
Schachter's terminology, in both (2) and (3),
"subjecthood properties" seem to be split
between the agent (which, as you correctly point
out, controls agreement) and the instrument.<br>
<br>
Very similar patterns obtain in the other
Austronesian and non-Austronesian languages that
I mentioned, which — given the apparent rarity
of this pattern elsewhere — is strongly
suggestive of language contact.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>David<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 22/02/2022 03:41,
Matthew Dryer wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">David,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Why
would you not say that the instrumental
construction in Meyah, Sougb, and Hatam is
an applicative, since the A rather than the
instrument controls subject agreement?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Matthew<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="color:black">Lingtyp
<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">
<lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a> on behalf of David
Gil <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">
<gil@shh.mpg.de></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, February 21, 2022
at 7:40 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">"lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"</a>
<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Lingtyp] query:
instrument voice</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear
all,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In
the Austronesian languages of Taiwan,
Philippines and Madagascar, there is a
verbal affix that is said to mark
"instrument voice"; loosely speaking, it
marks the topic or subject of the clause as
bearing the semantic role of instrument.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is
anybody familiar with similar
instrument-voice constructions from other
parts of the world?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The
reason I ask is that a similar construction
is present also in some languages of the
Bird's Head and Cenderawasih Bay regions of
New Guinea, eg. Biak, Roon, Wamesa and Wooi
(Austronesian), and Hatam, Sougb, Meyah and
Moskona (non-Austronesian). What's curious
about this construction is that, unlike the
well-known Austronesian cases, it is the
only morphologically-marked voice in each of
the languages in question; there is no
"ordinary" morphological passive
construction. My feeling is that this
construction is quite uncommon
cross-linguistically, but I would like to
get a feel for the extent to which this is
indeed true.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David<u></u><u></u></p>
<pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>David Gil<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre> <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre> <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre> <u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>David Gil<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>David Gil<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" target="_blank">gil@shh.mpg.de</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u> <u></u></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6
D-04103 Leipzig
<a href="https://www.eva.mpg.de/linguistic-and-cultural-evolution/staff/martin-haspelmath/" target="_blank">https://www.eva.mpg.de/linguistic-and-cultural-evolution/staff/martin-haspelmath/</a></pre>
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