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<p>Matthew,</p>
<p>The reason I don't call it an applicative is that (in most cases)
the instrumental argument must occur before the verb in a
topic-like position.</p>
<p>This can be illustrated with the Roon instrumental prefix <i>u-</i>
in the following examples:</p>
<p>
</p>
<table class="MsoTableGrid"
style="border-collapse:collapse;border:none;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-padding-alt:
0in 5.4pt 0in
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cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes">
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">(1)</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:.75in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="72"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">* Eros-i</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">t-u-karuk</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">ai-i-ya</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow:1;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes">
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:.75in;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt" width="72"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Eros-<span
style="font-variant:small-caps">pers</span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-variant:small-caps">3sg:anim-instr-</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">chop</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">tree-3<span
style="font-variant:small-caps">sg:anim-def</span></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;color:black"> </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><span
style="mso-tab-count:
1"> </span>'Eros chopped the tree'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
<table class="MsoTableGrid"
style="border-collapse:collapse;border:none;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-padding-alt:
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cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
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<tr style="mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes">
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">(2)</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:62.3pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="83" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">I-seref</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">kaman</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:22.65pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">fa</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:47.85pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="64" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Eros-i</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">t-u-karuk</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">ai-i-ya</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow:1;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes">
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:62.3pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="83" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">1<span
style="font-variant: small-caps">sg-</span>look.for</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">axe</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:22.65pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">for</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:47.85pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="64" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Eros-<span
style="font-variant:small-caps">pers</span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-variant:small-caps">3sg:anim-instr-</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">chop</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:85.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="114" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">tree-3<span
style="font-variant:small-caps">sg:anim-def</span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><span
style="mso-tab-count:
1"> </span>'I'm looking for an axe for Eros
to chop the tree
with'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
<table class="MsoTableGrid"
style="border-collapse:collapse;border:none;mso-yfti-tbllook:1184;mso-padding-alt:
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cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
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<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">(3)</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:67.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="90" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">I-seref</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">kaman</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:47.55pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="63" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Eros-i</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">t-u-karuk</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:Times;color:black"> </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:135.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="180" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">ai-i-ya-ri-ya</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-yfti-irow:1;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes">
<td style="width:22.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="30" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:67.25pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="90" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">1<span
style="font-variant: small-caps">sg-</span>look.for</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:38.2pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="51" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">axe</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:47.55pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="63" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Eros-<span
style="font-variant:small-caps">pers</span></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:94.5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="126" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-variant:small-caps">3sg:anim-instr-</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">chop</span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:135.0pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt"
width="180" valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">tree-3<span
style="font-variant:small-caps">sg:anim-def-3sg:inan-def</span></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><span
style="mso-tab-count:
1"> </span>'I'm looking for the axe that
Eros chopped the tree
with'</span></p>
<p>
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<p>Sentence (1) is ungrammatical, and cannot be salvaged by adding a
postverbal NP or PP referring to the axe; in this respect it
differs from typical applicative constructions. In contrast,
sentences (2) and (3) are fine, because the instrumental prefix <i>u-</i>
is licensed by the preceding NP <i>kaman</i> referring to the
axe. True, this is not exactly the same as how things work in
Philippine languages, but it is more like Philippine instrumental
voice than anything else I can think of (including applicatives).
In particular, in (3), the instrumental prefix is required in
order to license relativization (in contrast, relativization of
other oblique arguments is zero-marked). To use Paul Schachter's
terminology, in both (2) and (3), "subjecthood properties" seem to
be split between the agent (which, as you correctly point out,
controls agreement) and the instrument.<br>
<br>
Very similar patterns obtain in the other Austronesian and
non-Austronesian languages that I mentioned, which — given the
apparent rarity of this pattern elsewhere — is strongly suggestive
of language contact.</p>
<p>David</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 22/02/2022 03:41, Matthew Dryer
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:A70E063D-9170-464D-A58A-882FE9DFCCE5@buffalo.edu">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">David,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Why would
you not say that the instrumental construction in Meyah,
Sougb, and Hatam is an applicative, since the A rather than
the instrument controls subject agreement?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Matthew<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="color:black">Lingtyp
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org"><lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></a> on
behalf of David Gil <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de"><gil@shh.mpg.de></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, February 21, 2022 at 7:40 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">"lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org"><lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[Lingtyp] query: instrument voice<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dear
all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">In
the Austronesian languages of Taiwan, Philippines and
Madagascar, there is a verbal affix that is said to mark
"instrument voice"; loosely speaking, it marks the topic or
subject of the clause as bearing the semantic role of
instrument.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Is
anybody familiar with similar instrument-voice constructions
from other parts of the world?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The
reason I ask is that a similar construction is present also in
some languages of the Bird's Head and Cenderawasih Bay regions
of New Guinea, eg. Biak, Roon, Wamesa and Wooi (Austronesian),
and Hatam, Sougb, Meyah and Moskona (non-Austronesian).
What's curious about this construction is that, unlike the
well-known Austronesian cases, it is the only
morphologically-marked voice in each of the languages in
question; there is no "ordinary" morphological passive
construction. My feeling is that this construction is quite
uncommon cross-linguistically, but I would like to get a feel
for the extent to which this is indeed true.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">David<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>David Gil<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Senior Scientist (Associate)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">gil@shh.mpg.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Gil
Senior Scientist (Associate)
Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
Deutscher Platz 6, Leipzig, 04103, Germany
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gil@shh.mpg.de">gil@shh.mpg.de</a>
Mobile Phone (Israel): +972-526117713
Mobile Phone (Indonesia): +62-81344082091
</pre>
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